The Summer Reading List with Kate Baer

Summer is coming, and you know what that means – beach days (or days spent inside with the AC blasting, no judgment) with your favorite books. Today, Nora and friend of the pod and special guest Kate Baer get together to give you the Ultimate Summer Reading List for 2026, including Lena Dunham’s new memoir, a creepy novel that’s like if the Hunger Games and Love Island had a baby, and many more (seriously, you may not even get through all these recs this summer). If you’ve been craving a library summer reading challenge, look no further – we’ve got it for you. Open up your Libby app or your cart, babe, and get reading!

 

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.

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Hi.

Hi there.

Hi. Hi. Hey, Nora.

I’m Nora McInerny, and this is Thanks For Asking, a call-in show about what matters to you.

Hi, guys, it’s Nora McInerny. This is Thanks For Asking. I am not just a podcast host, not just a demotivational speaker, I am also an author, and I am a big time reader.

There’s nothing that I enjoy more than reading, honestly. Reading has been my companion since I could learn to read.

I remember learning to read and feeling like I had unlocked the secrets of the universe and I remember going to the library and getting in a little plastic bag that had a little hook on it, you could get a book with a tape so you could listen to the

book as you read along. And that book was The Hobbit. I believe it was an abridged version because there were quite a few illustrations and the sentences were very short.

But I remember when it clicked for me, looking up and saying like, I’m doing it. I’m really doing it. And ever since then, reading is a constant in my life.

I know that if I read even just a little bit every day, I feel better. It’s the first thing I do when I wake up. It is what I do before I fall asleep.

I love audiobooks. I prefer a physical book, but if I’m driving on a road trip, I’m listening to an audiobook.

I’m most likely listening to a thriller, something that is going to keep me alert and on the edge of my uncomfortable seat as I drive for hours. But I’m just a girl who loves to read, and we are in what a lot of people call prime reading season.

It is summer. This is the time to go to the library where it’s nice and cool, check out a stack of books. This is the time to sit by a pool or a body of water or in your house, honestly.

I don’t care where you sit and just read. In fact, I made a little reading chart for all of you. If you would like to join a little summer reading challenge, we’ll link to that in the episode description.

And we can all do a little summer reading challenge together. But to kick us off this summer, I have a special guest here with me today, a fellow reader, fellow writer, the poet Kate Baer. She’s a friend of the pod.

She’s been here before. She’s been on It’s Going To Be Okay.

Kate is the author of several New York Times bestselling books of poetry, the author of some of my very favorite poems, definitely the author of some of my favorite poems to cry to, but she is also a big time reader.

She has an Instagram account called Baer Books. That’s B-A-E-R. We’ll have a link to that as well.

And I thought I’d have her on the pod to kick off summer and talk about what we’ve read, what we want to read, what we think everyone should read next. All right, so get your library cards ready and let’s get reading.

4:21

Early Reading Experiences

Kate, I feel like you were, like me, the kind of child who participated in the library summer reading challenges.

A hundred percent. Yeah. I also checked out Library Smut, and I remember when my mom caught me finally, she was kind of absent in that way, and she finally realized it was checking out the Library Smut.

She would flipped out, and I was like, oh, I have to be sneakier. That was in my takeaway. But the library had stuff there.

It was like soft core porn books. It was so exciting when I learned that.

Yeah. I was not brave enough to check those out of the library, but I didn’t need to because Erin, who I grew up with, her big sister Jenny. Jenny, guess what?

When you moved out of the house, you left all your books and Erin would read them to us.

Nice test.

We were like, something is happening inside of us and I do not know.

It is an awakening. When you realize books can do that, I don’t even read Romanticy, but I totally get it. It’s nice for girls.

It is.

I did read Akatar, A Court of Thorns and Roses, because my daughter, she’s like, you have to read this, speaking of Romanticy. I listened to the first one. She said, the first one, it’s not good.

You got to stick it out. You got to get to the second one. You got to get to the third one.

Everyone tells me.

Everyone says it.

I’m listening to the first one. I am, in many ways, still the prude from Catholic school that I was. I’m driving, listening to the audiobook.

I’m like, Sophie, why would you want me to listen to this? And also, I’m like, this is what you’re reading in Mexico?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

On the beach with us.

That is so funny. Yeah, right, right. I was right next to you while you were having these feelings.

Yeah.

Like, no wonder you just wanted to read the whole time, okay?

Yeah, yeah.

And you know what I’ll say? I did read the whole ACOTAR series. I get it.

I get it.

People love it. I love that for people. I don’t care what people read, so I’m just so happy when people are reading shit.

I love the Romanticies. There’s whole bookstores opening. I’m just happy for those authors and those readers.

Yeah. I think it’s nice.

I do. I love seeing people read. I don’t even care what people are reading.

I just love seeing people read.

Yeah. The Romanticies stuff, I’m happy girls are getting off. It’s great.

You want to get turned on?

Awesome. That’s great. I can’t read an open door romance, I guess they call it, where people are…

where it’s not Romanticie, it’s true romance in the world because it’s just too embarrassing to me.

Or like a slutty smut.

Yeah. I can read a rom-com, but if they’re truly doing it, it’s so funny to me.

Yeah.

I just…

I agree. It’s also funny.

I’m just like, what? Oh, God.

Because you have to be so creative with the words for different things. So that’s what I’m thinking about. I’m like, oh, you had to choose that, how to write the scene.

I’m thinking about someone typing it.

And then I’m also thinking, I’m like, oh, God. Yeah, I don’t know. And in real life, would I do that?

I don’t know.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don’t know what of it. And also, I think also in all those books, there’s so much dialogue. I’m like, I don’t remember speaking that much in my most passionate experiences.

I don’t remember chatting.

That’s a pet peeve for me in all books. I don’t like a dialogue heavy book in general. And so I certainly don’t need it if I’m just trying to get to the part that’s sexy.

I’m like, this is, it’s superfluous to me.

Yeah. A lot of chit chat. And I’m a talker.

I’m a talker. Yeah. And yet.

Same.

And yet.

We’re, when you are reading in the summer, where’s your favorite place to read?

Outside by the pool. Outside on the deck, on the porch, or my bed. It’s like the bed is evergreen because in the summer, the windows are open and I’m feeling the breeze.

What about you?

Well, summer is kind of… In the car? First of all, I always have an audiobook to listen to.

So I can only read one book at a time, but I can read a book and listen to a book at the same time. You know what I mean? There are people who have like three books going at once.

I don’t know how you do it. I admire you for that, but I really need to stay in one story unless that story is audio, and then I can be reading a different story. So summer is a little different in Phoenix because summer is kind of our winter.

So this is kind of the time where we like cozy up. You spend a lot of time indoors because it’s simply too hot to be outside. But we are redoing our pool to make it shallower, take less water.

Also, it had not been touched since it was established in the 60s. So the plaster was crumbling. It was basically just like a dirty hole in the ground.

So it’s in the process of being redone.

Just did that.

And I was like, yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes, the glamour of it all. But we’re going to have one of those Baja ledges where you can read in the water, basically.

Oh my God.

Have your chair in the water.

That’s amazing.

And I’ve got a, you’ve got to get, I think they’re called Big Joe or something. They’re these floaties.

Oh, I know Big Joe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I have one that’s perfect to read in. And so I can float in that and read. But really, I just got an umbrella that’s huge, that will fully cover the double chaise lounge that overlooks the pool.

And if you get in the pool, you get out, the air is so dry here, it wicks the water off of you, you feel cold for like two to five minutes. And in those two to five minutes, you can sit in the shade and you’ll be okay being outside in the room.

So I like to read there. We have a hammock that I’ve had for 15 years. It is still going strong.

That’s a good place to read. But yeah, bed is evergreen, and so is the corner spot on the couch, which when we wake up in the morning, everybody in our family reads. When we wake up, we are all fighting for the corner spot.

I know, we have a spot like that too.

And it’s just like, god damn it, when I can’t get it. And I don’t want to disrupt, but I also want to be like, get out of my seat. Like this is where I want to sit.

I’m the one drinking a cup of coffee.

I need a place to set something. You’re a child.

Okay, you can sit on top of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like get on the ground.

I don’t know.

You’re a child, go to your kennel and read quietly there. Okay, so those are my favorite spots, and I just know summer is like a time where I just like rip through books. I look forward to it, and I always love your book recommendations.

I look forward to them on Baer Books.

I follow your bookstagram. Oh my God, I get recommendations from you. I, there are only a few spots where I get books, but not like, I’m not like only these.

It’s just, that’s what I see. And I’m like, oh yeah, that’s perfect.

Okay, so I want to know-

Well, I’m going to write down yours. Are we recording?

Yeah, we’re recording.

Oh my gosh, we’ve been recording this whole time?

Yeah.

Oh my, I thought we were waiting to begin.

No, I said we’re going to hit record.

I’m very unprofessional.

Okay, that’s going to be one of our clips.

Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. That’s how I would have started.

I mean, we’re both going to get canceled for having a poll.

Yeah, I know. Well, you know what I’ve been thinking? The Internet is so boring recently.

Don’t you kind of want to get canceled? Sometimes I should have a take. I should have a take that’s so cancelable.

Every so often I do. I do a little bit, like a summer cancel.

Yeah, I do takes every so often. The Internet is a boring place now, but I’ll do a take from here and there. I’ll do a take.

So I want to start with books that we’ve already read. One thing that I like about you is that you aren’t just posting about brand new books. You give older books a chance.

I think we all have to do that. We all have to give some older books a chance.

I agree. Also, it’s easier to get them from the library.

It is. It is. That’s the best part.

I just read The Compound.

I’m not sure how old that book is. It cannot be that old. Have you heard of it?

No.

It’s kind of like The Hunger Games meets Love Island.

It’s about this girl on a reality show. I think you would love it. I don’t think it’s that old.

I got it right away and I had never heard of it. It must have skinned the radar, but that one I got really quickly.

Okay. What did you like about it?

I don’t know when it was published. It was kind of a thriller vibe with a dystopian feel because it’s a little bit set in the future, but I don’t know. It was fun.

It was fun and it was zippy and I love a fun zippy book, but it was smart. It was like smart writing, but it was really compelling. I don’t know.

It was fun. It was just a fun book.

It was a fun book. Did you ever read Patricia Wants to Cuddle?

No. I have paper. Okay.

It’s a similar vibe to that that you would also like.

And it is a almost like magical realism, takes place on a remote island where they’re basically shooting The Bachelorette. This book is a couple years old. And there’s basically a Bigfoot sighting.

But the Bigfoot is a lady Bigfoot, who I think is like in love with one of the contestants. It’s one of those books that’s like so funny and it’s commentary on reality TV, which is ultimately dystopian. Reality TV is.

And is so funny and so absurd. And I loved that book a few years ago. And that was a good summer book too.

So I’m going to write down your book. I also, I’m going to reread this summer.

14:58

Literary Book Picks

This is a summer where I want to reread books that I loved before. And one of my very favorite novels of all time, and I will not rest until everybody has read this book, is I Cheerfully Refuse by Leif Enger.

And I didn’t read that one. I got it and never read it. Okay.

It’s so beautiful.

I’ve heard people love this book.

Like it’s, I’ve heard it’s like life-changing and beautiful. And I read his other book.

Yeah. Peace Like a River.

Yeah. Yeah.

And he also wrote another one that is on the tip of my tongue.

Yeah.

He’s written some really. Virgil Wander has the same energy to it. And part of it is I met Leif Enger when my first book came out.

And I was at a very literary event. And as you know, I often feel very insecure at those things because I’m like, I don’t think I’m a very literary person. I don’t think I count in this space.

I only have one book out. This guy’s like a celebrated author. Every other author had like a plethora of books.

He was so kind to me. We had to get up and basically talk about our book. I had to get up and talk about my book.

I was like, I don’t know what this book is about. This is my first book about my husband dying. I was like, I don’t know what is any book about, I would say.

I know.

Exactly. My mind goes blank in that situation.

Yeah.

Oh my God, I had to do the same thing before. I wrote this months ago. Yeah.

I don’t know what this book is about.

He was so kind and he was so lovely. And he truly belongs in another time, but we are blessed with him here in this lifetime. He writes on an Olivetti typewriter, but not as an affectation.

He used to work in public radio. He lives up on the north shore of Lake Superior. That’s where I Cheerfully Refused takes place.

And it’s an odyssey journey in a near future that is a dystopia where the youth are hopeless and falling prey to what is essentially fentanyl and opting out of this life because a class of people that they call the astronauts have pillaged the earth

and taken all of the resources. And it’s just such a beautiful journey and the writing is so gorgeous.

Would you call him the female Elizabeth Strout?

Yes.

Or sorry, the male Elizabeth Strout? He’s the female Elizabeth Strout.

That’s kind of how I described him.

He’s the female Elizabeth Strout.

What I love about Elizabeth Strout is like, you’re in this small world that feels so big.

And what I love about Lake Enger’s books is it makes the bigness of the world feel so small and so intimate and so personal. It’s such a beautiful book. I remember reading it slowly, and I am a fast reader.

And I was like, I can’t let this book end. And I’m going to treat myself to a reread this summer. And I really want everybody to read it.

And if everybody reads it, we will do a book club. We will do a live summer book club at some point.

I’ll read it. I’ll read it and come back. I’m happy to read that and come back.

What’s wild is you wouldn’t think books that are very much about an interior life, you’d want to reread. But if the writing is that sharp, I would absolutely reread Elizabeth Strout. And so I’m reading her current one.

I’m reading it so slowly on purpose because I’m like, it’s going to end and then I don’t know if she’ll write another one. It’s that same way. It’s that same feeling.

The new Elizabeth Strout book is on my list.

It’s called The Things We Never Say. Is it out now or is it coming out?

It’s out now. Have you read her other books?

I’ve read every single book. They’re all lined up.

You’ve read them all. Yeah, I just came out. I came out this week maybe.

Last week, not this week.

I’m going to the bookstore literally today for that book, The Things We Never Say. Give me the gist so far.

It doesn’t even matter what it’s about.

I never do. I actually never do. But some listeners like to know plots of books, but I never know the plot of a book before I pick it up.

I don’t read the back copy.

Same.

I don’t read the flap copy. I just say, I’ll try this. I guess I am judging a book by its cover.

I would say it’s not about any characters we’ve met before, so that is new.

Lucy is not there. Olive is not there. But it’s still very coastal.

It’s in the same universe still. It’s about a guy named Artie Dam, and he wants to kill himself.

So it’s a heavier feel, but it’s got that same lightness in that you still float through that, and you feel the heaviness, but you also feel like the lightness of humanity and the comedy of humans, because humans are so funny, and she just knows how

to build an interior life in a way that I’ve never read. I’ve never read anyone really like her before, although your comp is that, to me, he writes very much like Leaf. Is that how you say it? Yeah.

Leaf.

I always said Leaf.

Leaf? Did I say?

Now I don’t know. Leafanger. However I said it the first time was correct.

Classically, who’s the girl that wrote Gone Girl?

I said her name wrong for a decade.

That’s because Gillian is-

I was saying Gillian. I’m out here, Gillian too. I’m out here, Gillian, Gillian, Gillian.

People are like, no, dumb ass, it’s Gillian. I’m Leaf and Leaf. I don’t know.

But he reminds me of her in that way, just the interior life. Anyway, it’s very good.

That’s what I love about Elizabeth Strout too is, she and Lily King have this skill too, where they’re not overly descriptive even in the environment, and yet you can see it.

And feel it, and it’s not overly dialogued either, which is nice. I’m sure you read all Lily King. She’s like an easy wreck for me.

You have books that are just like, oh, I know you’re going to love that. I’m always like, oh, but you’ll love Lily King. Yeah.

Yeah.

I had never heard of Lily King until I read Heart the Lover. Never heard of her.

Oh my god. So you didn’t read Writers and Lovers?

I just read it. Now I went on a deep dive through the entire back catalog, but when I read Heart the Lover, I was so stunned. And it felt so familiar.

I think anyone who has been sort of consumed by a youthful infatuation. And it really did. I did send it to the people that I was friends with, the guys that I was friends with in college and said, I need you all to read this.

I almost did it.

Oh, so you did that. I almost did that. I did it.

Because I also lived with some guys in college and I was in that very same situation. And I was like, it was eerie. I was like, is this book, is this play about me?

Is this play about me?

That’s how I felt. I was like, and I’m just like…

What did they say?

I don’t even think any of them read it. So you know what? I’m going to fire up that text right now.

We’re going back.

Okay.

We’re going back. Hold on. Let’s get it up here.

Okay.

Do you want to text him and say, did you ever read that book?

Yeah, that’s what I’m going to do. Okay, here we go. Yeah, they didn’t reply.

But then, in the manner of boys who have become men, who you keep up with, you know, they mostly reach out when one of them is in a crisis.

Yeah. Yeah. Or they want attention.

They’re like, they’re not getting attention somewhere else. So they’re like, I’m going to try this to try to feel something.

I’d fire this up. We’ve had the same email chain since 2005 when we all got Gmail addresses at the same time. And so that got fired up recently.

That email about Heart the Lover went unanswered. But then a new person, one of the guys resurfaced the chain to say, I’m getting a divorce. And then someone else replied, I just had a baby.

And I was like, what is happening right now? But okay, so Heart the Lover did that for me, right? It brings you back to this like time and space.

And what I love about her writing is, I don’t even know what decade we’re in, but it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter.

The very last scene, I gasped, I bawled reading this book. I handed it to my husband. I said, I need you to read this book.

I feel like it’ll help you understand me. I feel like you’ll like it. Even though, and he truly like, he was fully pulled into this book, ripped through it and was like, I know exactly what you mean.

He’s like, I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly what you mean. So it really does that.

And then I read almost all of her back list now.

Do you control your husband’s reading?

I let him be himself. Like in the manner of, in this spirit of I don’t care what people read as long as they’re reading. He reads on his little iPad Mini with his little glasses.

And sometimes I’ll say, what are you reading? And he reads a lot of just like thrillers. You know, like he reads a lot of Rachel Hawkins, a lot of, what was the other woman who I like?

And I like a thriller too. Like I’ll be like, I need to get into a world.

Oh, thrillers help me. That helps me get out of a reading funk like none other. Because if I’m turning the page, I’m like, oh yeah, I can have this dopamine here.

Yeah.

But if I give him a recommendation, he really does take it. If I hand him a book, I know he’ll read it. And I think the cutest thing about my husband’s reading habits is my mom will send him books.

And my mom sends me books, and I’ll be like, maybe I’ll get to that. He takes it as a physical assignment.

Yeah. That’s cute.

That’s great. From my mother. He’ll say, well, your mom told me to read this book.

And then I guess they have their own conversations about books, which is really cute.

As they say. That’s a good man.

That is. It’s a good man. It’s a good man.

30:31

Diverse Book Suggestions

Have you read any Rainbow Roll?

Of course.

Okay. Have you read Cherry Baby?

No. Reading that one down next.

Oh my God. I want to live-

Is this new?

It’s new. It’s new. It’s maybe a month old.

New.

It’s circling new.

We get to go back into the world of Rainbow Roll, where we’re not revisiting a character, but we’re revisiting a feeling.

Okay.

We are revisiting Omaha, my favorite place that I’ve only spent one night in, but because of Rainbow Roll, I feel like I’ve lived in Omaha. I’ve actually lived my entire life in Omaha.

Yeah. I love when that happens. I love when you get to go somewhere new.

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And so, this one, God, it truly was just the kind of book. We’re so in it.

And it’s unrequited love, it’s divorce, it’s the complication of growing up with somebody, like romantically, growing apart from them, trying to walk through one of your past sliding doors, getting through it, just all these sort of like being

This is like a topic for America.

It’s a topic for America.

It’s a topic for America. Again, she’s one of those writers, she couldn’t be more different from Lilly King and Elizabeth Strout, but she just really does build a world.

Yeah. Oh, I love her. I just haven’t read that one.

Yeah.

I haven’t even heard of it.

You know how things just escape you? Yes. I’m like, oh, I didn’t even know this was happening and then, yeah.

Okay, that’s amazing.

I love that writer. How did I not know that Elizabeth Strout’s new book came out last week, when Elizabeth Strout and Lilly King, I can never meet them. No.

I can never meet them. Never, never, never. Because I would do so, I’d be, I’d say something like, I’d say something like, why don’t we go on vacation together?

Why don’t you come to my car with me?

I had this experience. I just had this experience actually. I don’t know if you read The Road to Tender Hearts.

I’m like an evangelist for this book. Did you read it?

No, that’s on my TBR because of you.

Oh my God, that should be number one. Okay. The Road to Tender Hearts, I’m a personal evangelist for this book.

It’s one of the best books I’ve ever read. It’s one of those books that you can give to anyone, your mom or your sister or your husband or your friends or your dentist. It’s like anyone can read this book and feel.

It’s the most delightful but heartbreaking, but beautiful book. It’s very much the vibe I would say. I’m not going to tell you anything else about it, but the vibes are very Little Miss Sunshine.

I think a lot of people can pull from that story. It’s a very similar story and it’s a beautiful book. She happened to moderate my Boston talk on the book tour, and I was sick to meet her and I acted like a deranged person.

I was like the fan girl who can’t keep her shit together, and I thought it would be cute.

But instead, I just came across as an absolute lunatic, because she’s just like a person, and I know this on the other side, and I tried to remind myself of that. It was very humbling. Now, we have become friends, I hope, since.

We text, we message, she’s a wonderful person, very cutie pie, wonderful, beautiful writer, but this did happen to me.

She’s a cuter her or me.

Oh my God. I would never say, and there’s no one cuter than you. I’ve never met a human cuter than you.

But you should read it.

You should absolutely read it. Is it a road trip book? Yeah.

I love a road trip book.

I love a road trip book.

It’s the perfect book for any situation, but coming up on summer, if anyone needs a book to take on vacation, it’s not Chicklet, it’s not because of that. It’s not a beach read in that way. It’s just a book that you will fall in love with.

And I’m 100 percent certain you’ll love it.

And I love that feeling because there’s so many books that you’re like, well, if you’re in that mood or you’re that kind of person, you like Magical Realism or you like Lena Dunham, I’m not going to be like, everyone should read Fame Sick.

But The Road to Tender Hearts is universal. So please text me when you read that. That’s one of my favorite books of all time.

Okay.

I will read that. Speaking of Fame Sick though, I really did love it. I really did love it.

Oh, I loved it. And Lena Dunham can write, okay? And anybody who says otherwise-

She’s the voice of a generation.

She is the voice of a generation.

And anybody who says otherwise is a hater. I’m sorry to say, you’re a hater and that’s okay. But it’s just such, it’s so beautiful.

I loved it.

I just loved it.

I loved it. And I loved it for finally naming names in the way she didn’t in her first book because she didn’t feel like she could in her first book.

And I do love looking back at a part of your life that everybody thought they understood and that you thought you understood.

Yeah.

And seeing it differently. And I really, really appreciated it. I really did.

And I don’t think she was overly critical of anyone.

I don’t think she- She wasn’t like, it wasn’t a bashing. People are framing this book to be like a bashing session on a certain people.

And I actually didn’t feel that way about anyone. Yeah. I don’t think-

I think she just kind of told her truth and also left room for like, and also it was probably annoying that I didn’t show up to work. Like, yeah, I’m sure they were frustrated with you. I don’t think she shied away from showing that part of it.

And so I think that honesty sums it up. Like, that’s why her writing is so good. First of all, she’s a very good writer, but also she’s being honest, I think, in a way that, I don’t know, is very human.

I loved it. I’ll read anything she writes for the rest of my life.

Same.

Yeah, if she has no hater or if she has no fans, I’m dead.

Same.

Yeah.

Same. If she has no fans, come to my grave and put her books on top of it. Bury me, bury them next to me so I can read them in the afterlife.

I do have a new book recommendation, but I can also recommend her backlist as well. Have you read any Courtney Mom?

Yeah, of course.

Yeah. I love Courtney as a writer citizen. When anybody asks me-

She’s a great writer.

I always send them. I have it in my office somewhere.

Same. Before and after the book deal.

Yeah.

Before and after the book deal. Don’t ask me about publishing.

That book, Life Changing. Just read that. That’s what I read when I got my first book deal.

I was like, oh, you send flowers to your agent when your book comes out. No one would have told me that she wouldn’t have gotten the flowers. I didn’t know that stuff.

It’s down to that detail. I’m like, it’s an invaluable resource.

It is. And so is her sub stack. Yes.

And she writes fiction. Oh, God. I’m having so much fun here without you.

I think it’s her first novel and it’s so good.

So good. I’ve read it. It’s great.

It touches her second novel, which was Ahead of It’s Time.

And so funny about a tech guy. It’s so funny. So she’s such a funny writer.

And she has a new book coming out in June. So I got to read the arc and it’s called Alan Ops Out. And it’s about-

Oh, my God.

I hear about this everywhere. And people keep talking about Alan Ops Out.

It’s so funny, Kate.

It’s so funny. It got incredible reviews. I’m so happy for her.

He takes place in Greenwich and, again, a place I’ve never been, but now I have been.

And Alan is an ad executive and he kind of loses his mind, decides he’s not participating in capitalism anymore, but he is married to a Midwest transplant striver who really wants to make it in the Greenwich social scene.

And so that is at odds with each other. And so is his new lifestyle where he’s going to live in the playhouse and not work and not shower is at odds with the Greenwich society that he lives in. And it’s so funny, like laugh out loud, funny.

Like it’s just the fantasy breakdown you wish you could have.

Oh, my God. Okay. I’ve heard nothing but positive reviews.

It was already on my list, but I’m going to write it down to remind me to move it up on my list. Okay, that’s great. Okay, perfect.

Okay, wait. I don’t read much non-fiction, but I really got in a, I really, for no reason, I just don’t read a ton of it, but I just read a whole bunch in a row. I read the book Everyone’s Reading Strangers.

But I also read right after that Marriage at Sea. Did you read that one? Has that one come across your desk?

No.

Tell me everything.

Oh my God. You have to read Marriage at Sea. It’s so good.

Did you ever read the Last American Hermit or it’s a longer name than that, about this hermit that lives in the woost? The woost. The wood?

The woost in the woost.

If you Google Last American Hermit, incredible.

Okay.

Incredible.

You know why? It’s because it’s written by a journalist about this guy, and I think sometimes with non-fiction, it helps to have that separation to really look at a whole story.

This guy is so compassionate and loving towards this man that he’s writing about, and is so respectful, and is not making fun of him and his background or wherever he came from, but really tells the story of this man’s life. It’s very quick read.

It’s like when you get into an article online that’s really interesting, but it’s like a whole book. That sounds bad, but I mean it in a very positive way.

When a book reads like a magazine story, I do think that’s a compliment.

Yeah. I love memoir. It’s not that.

It’s just sometimes that degree of separation for non-fiction is helpful, and the same thing happens with Marriage at Sea.

It’s a very viral story from maybe the 70s, don’t quote me on that, about this couple that their boat sunk and they were stuck in the middle of the ocean.

It’s a crazy story, but the writer of this book, Marriage at Sea, is so good at telling this story in such a compelling and beautiful way. It’s also a reflection of a marriage, and it’s also like an adventure story of deep proportion.

It’s very good.

So if anyone wants a quick non-fiction book, The Last American Hermit, I can’t, that’s not the title, but you’ll find it right away.

The Stranger in the Woods, the extraordinary story of The Last True Hermit.

There you go.

Got it.

You got it.

Okay.

It’s so good. And if that gets your boner up, you will love Marriage at Sea, because they’re very similar.

Okay.

It’s a similar kind of storytelling. A third party who’s a good writer and a journalist kind of telling the story from beginning to end, and I highly recommend them. And they’re quick.

And that’s nice sometimes when you’re like, I need a quick book.

It is. And I want to get into a story and I want to like, I don’t know, just feel like I also learned something. That’s what I do like about nonfiction.

Am I glad? Look how smart I am.

I do love a long book.

I do.

I love a long book too.

I have a nonfiction for you. I almost said I have a nonfiction for you to recommend. So it’s a memoir.

Okay.

It’s called Try Hard.

And so it’s an ambition memoir, a female ambition memoir, which is one of my favorite new genres. And it is written by Laura Mayer. She really came up in podcasting.

Was there for the beginning of many of the big podcasting companies and like so many women, did she get rich? No.

She also made one of the funniest, smartest, coolest, most experimental projects a few years back but I just remember seeing and thinking like, God, I wish I could do something like this. And it was called Shameless Acquisition Target.

45:32

Apple Podcasts

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shameless-acquisition-target/id1630806641

She was between jobs and she was making a podcast for the sole purpose of selling it.

And while she is producing the show and publishing the show, talking about the economics of podcasting in a way that people don’t ever speak about, talking about how much this project has cost her, selling ads as she goes to random people, saying at

the end of every podcast that her life rights are for sale, the name of this podcast is for sale. She is for sale. She’s available for a job. She does end up with a job.

And it was just so funny and so clever. And so this book is about her life story. There are certainly people who are born this way.

And I am one of them, right? People were just born striving, trying to accomplish something, trying to just with this frenetic doer energy. And she is one of them.

And like Fame Sick, we get to see the effects of it too. And she is laugh out loud funny.

It’s a great title.

Isn’t it? It’s so good.

Okay. Oh my god. I have so many good suggestions here.

What else are we reading? What are you reading right now?

Oh, right now I’m reading this book called Permanence. And I have to, I’m not done with it, by Sophie McIntosh. And it’s a novel that takes place.

This couple wakes up. They are in a city. They’re in an alternate universe.

Maybe they can’t figure it out. Are they in a shared delusion? Are they in a dream?

They are in a city of cheaters.

A city of cheaters? Because they’re having an adventure.

So there’s everyone else in this city. And so it’s kind of an allegory for infidelity, I would say. And they’re, so they’re trying to figure out the rules of this universe, what gets them in and out of it.

And we learn more about who they are in, like, you know, the real world versus this world. We see how this world changes. I’m probably two-thirds of the way through it.

And I’m like, oh, damn, this was good. There’s no way this doesn’t end up being an HBO mini series.

Yeah.

For sure.

Happy for her. I hope it is.

Yeah. Happy for her.

Always always rooting for that HBO mini.

Yes. Yes. Cause if you read it, you’ll be like, oh, yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yep. I actually might have like a second copy that I can pop in the mail to you.

I feel like they accidentally sent me to. I’ll just get it from the library. But this is what I’m reading.

What are you reading? Have you read this? Lost Lambs?

No.

Everyone told me to read it.

Madeline or Madeline Cash. I don’t know. I’m not very far, but everyone told me to read it.

So a novel or a memoir?

It’s a novel.

It’s a novel. I couldn’t even tell you what it’s about, but it’s very, it’s very viral. So, okay.

Okay.

Lost Lamps. Lost Lamps. How far into it are you that you don’t know where you are?

I have to be honest.

I started reading this like 10 times, but then I got same sick and then I got some other books we were talking about earlier and some other books and they got in the way and I bought this.

Yeah.

And then I had some library stuff come across my desk.

A library book is always going to take precedence. I’m always going to read a library book first.

It’s kind of like the teenage brain, like I’ll never read this, but I do have this beside my bed. I hope it doesn’t get, I don’t actually want to read about my teenage brain, but I was like, I’ll buy this to be a better parent.

I’ll never read that, but I hope to read it. It took me forever to read this, too, because I kept getting library books, but this is also good. This is a beautiful cover.

Did you read this?

Emma Straub. I haven’t read American Fantasy yet. I love Emma Straub.

I love Emma Straub.

Shout out to Emma. She is a friend and this book is great and so fun. I loved Her This Time Tomorrow.

Beautiful book as well.

I loved This Time Tomorrow. I loved This Time Tomorrow. I love magical realism.

I love a little bit of time travel. I really do. I have one more recommendation too.

Have you read any Jessica Noll, like Luckiest Girl Alive?

I wouldn’t be Jessica Noll and actually she’s someone I saw on the internet. And one time I was not sober a month ago. This is some tea.

And I wish you were on a show called Real Authors of New York City, like a Housewives show, because she has such good life content. And I just find her to be so funny and beautiful and glamorous to me. And then I felt really bad about that.

I was like, I hope that wasn’t, but she was very cool about it. So I’m really telling you my stories with other authors. I sound like an absolute psychopath.

But yes, I do like Jessica Noll. I’ve moderated for her a few times. She’s a sweetheart.

Wow. I actually do know her, but I’m also a fan. Yeah, yes.

I don’t know if I could meet her, because I think I’d be a fan.

I’m a fan. I’m a fan. And she wrote Bright Young Women.

And Bright Young Women, I first listened to an audio book. And then I bought the book. And then I underlined the book.

And it is a perfect book. And it’s a keeper. I don’t keep every book.

When I do want to keep a book, I put my stamp on the inside so that people would feel compelled to return it. They will feel guilt should it remain on their bookshelf. So, but I honestly haven’t even lent that one out.

But I did make Matthew read that one too. And he was stunned. He was stunned.

So she does have, have you read her new book?

No, but it’s about to come out.

It’s about to come out.

Is it good? Have you read it? It’s so good.

It’s so good.

And the ending, I was on a plane. It’s my favorite thing to do is read on a plane. Start a book and finish it when the flight is over.

Oh, it’s the best.

Oh, nothing better.

I said out loud at the twist, I go, what? Out loud.

What? If that’s not an endorsement, I can’t wait to read it.

Stunned?

I already have it pre-ordered.

It’s gonna piss some people off. The right people will be like, okay, that was cool. And then other people will say, are you, come on, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So good.

So good.

Oh my god, I can’t wait.

And I really appreciate the way that she writes about class. Yeah. Class conflict.

Yeah, I do too.

Really astutely.

She’s really good at that.

She’s really good at that. And I’ve heard her speak on writing a few times too. And she’s really a lighthearted, fun person who can also just be very poignant and she’s very articulate and she’s just the coolest.

She’s very cool.

Yeah. She is so cool.

She’s why I’m a fan girl.

Never, never can meet her. But I’m gonna also tell you that I, I have a book on pre-order that’s gonna be here very soon. And David Sedaris has a new essay collection coming out.

52:51

Author Encounters

And I saw him speak in Flagstaff, Arizona, not knowing that he was in Phoenix, Arizona, where I live the night before.

I drove two hours north to go see him with Sophie, which felt so full circle, because that’s the stuff I used to do with my mom at her age, was go see David Sedaris, like, read. And it was so fun.

Like, we had dinner, Kate, and it was like seeing an old friend where you’re like, like, chatting, chatting, chatting, chatting. Laughed out loud. And then she wanted to wait in line to meet him.

Yeah.

And so we were like the second to last people.

I did not dazzle him whatsoever. I met David Sedaris, and I think he was worse off for the interaction, you know.

But the thing is, he meets so many people that he just, he felt your love. I always, whenever I sign books at bookstores, I always gossip with the booksellers about other authors. I’m like, tell me your best and worst stories.

And you know what? They never have anything but good things to say about him.

They love him.

And so I find that to be very telling. So I’m sure you had nothing but love for you.

Oh, I know. But you know what I learned from David Sedaris? One is I do always ask a question when I’m at a reading.

And so I’ve seen him twice and I asked this time, I was like, how are you logistically doing these tours? Because he’s in a different city every single day. I was like, are you flying private was my main question.

Did you ask that?

Yeah.

What did he say?

And like, how are you planning to travel?

Like, do you stay in the same hotel every same kind of hotel every time? Like, it’s like 50 cities, right? Just nonstop.

And he was like, no, I’ve only flown private once. It was $10,000. I didn’t know that.

So I was pretty pissed off afterwards. So no, he’s just flying commercial, just bopping from city to city. I do think it’s easier if you’re a man.

I just do. No one cares what you wear, right? Even if you’re a man who’s going to wear like a Comde Garcon skirt.

And he prefers a Four Seasons. That’s not available, obviously, in Flagstaff, Arizona. He walks 10,000 steps a day, or five miles a day, 10 miles a day, a lot.

I was like, OK, this is… That’s OK, no matter where. He says he’ll wake up at 5 a.m.

if he has to. I said, OK.

That’s something to say. That’s fine. That’s fine.

Yeah, but he was like, I just love it, and I’ll do laundry at the venue if I have to.

Venues have laundry. I was like, what? So that kind of blew my mind.

What venue?

What are you talking about? When are you doing laundry at the venue? Like the bookstore?

He’s doing theaters.

He’s doing theaters.

OK, theaters. I know, but there’s laundry at the theater?

There’s laundry at theaters. There’s showers at theaters.

I would have loved to do that. I had to buy underwear at the CVS on my last tour because I ran out of underwear. Because I forgot, actually, you do need more like two pairs of underwear a day.

I know, I know, I know.

OK.

And I never did laundry.

I did a 20, I never did laundry at a venue. It’s like, what?

That’s what I’m saying.

Yeah, so I don’t know. I was really, I was impressed by that. But then I just, I don’t know.

He does love it. And what I learned, OK, so this is what I really learned from David Sedaris is a million years ago, when I first saw him, he’ll stay till the last person gets their book signed.

And I’ve been at different book signings with different authors who cannot wait to get out of there. And it bums me out.

It bums me out.

It bums me out.

I’m like, I’m not going to say who I saw who did this to me, but she did that and I asked to take a selfie with her.

Yeah.

And she said, you know what, it’s been a really long day, but I guess. And then we had the saddest, ugliest selfie. And you know what, I was in my 20s and I would never do that now.

I wouldn’t even ask. Not for any other reason, I don’t need to do that anymore. But it was a bummer.

And I see her side of it now because she’s an author that I love and that’s just kind of her persona. But I felt so embarrassed.

Oh my God.

It made me feel so much shame and embarrassment. I was like, why did I even ask that? Why did I even wait in this line?

She definitely doesn’t want to sign my book.

Yeah.

And so I do think about that now. I never do that.

I would never do that. I would never do that. I think I might have refused to selfie once when I truly did look like I got hit by a truck, where I was like, I feel so ugly and bad about myself today.

And I think that’s how I put it. I was like, I feel really bad and ugly today. I’m sorry.

I will do anything but that because I just feel so bad about myself. But like…

And that’s probably how she felt.

Yeah. And he said, I love this. And when you’re…

There’s just something I tried to remember too. It’s like, oh yeah, all these people came to see you. Why wouldn’t you love that?

You know what I mean? Like, why wouldn’t you love that? Everybody in the line is apologizing to him.

And he’s like, no, I love this. And then last week, I did a speaking event. And I also did a book signing.

People are like, are you so sick of this? I was like, no, I love this. This is the best part.

It’s the best part.

It’s the only thing that makes the job feel real is seeing another person.

So if I see you, if you see me in the airport and I’m not picking my nose, like, say hi. If you have a book to sign, of course I will sign it. I will take a selfie with you.

Especially if you see me wearing makeup and the light is good, take a selfie.

Let’s take a picture. And if I’m at my own event, I’ve dressed up in a way that I would like to be photographed. Please photograph us together.

I put in some effort today. Exactly.

I put in so much effort. I put in so much effort. Okay, I have one more book that I want to talk about and I’m excited about, and then I’ll let you go.

I could do this all day.

I know, well, we’re going to.

I have stacks of books I could talk about.

We’re going to, and so if you love this and you just simply must text 612-568-4441 and say, more Kate Baer, please.

And then we will legally rope Kate Baer into this universe.

I’m kind of annoyed if you don’t do that. So I feel my joints hurt.

This just arrived.

Oh, don’t buy what I’m selling.

So this just arrived in the PO box. And it is a memoir about advertising. She used to work in advertising.

It’s by Lou Czachowski. It’s called Don’t Buy What I’m Selling. And I am, I’m excited to read this.

And you know what I know I will also feel? I will also feel like, damn, why didn’t I write this?

I hate that.

I love that feeling. I’ll tell you why I love that feeling.

I love that feeling, but it hurts.

It hurts.

It hurts. Actually, that’s kind of how I felt reading Heart the Lover. I was like, god damn it.

God damn it, yeah.

So I’m excited about that one, but I’m now also excited to add all of your books to the list. And for everybody who’s listening, we will have this entire list of books with links in the episode description.

You can also go to the sub stack, which is linked, and we will have, I guess, just the links there, too. I don’t know what I’m saying, but Kate Baer, thank you for giving us our Summer Reading List. We will see you back here again very soon.

Yeah, I’ll see you tomorrow. Because now you’re our official reading correspondent.

I take this job very seriously, as serious as a heart attack, so I will be back.

Okay, good. I will send you some podcasting supplies, and we will have you back here.

I think because I’m just doing this on my iPhone. Perfect, great.

That’s actually the supply.

Yeah, thanks.

Our team here at Feelings & Co is Marcel Malakibu, Grace Berry and myself. Our opening theme music is by Geoffrey Lamar Wilson. The theme music you’re hearing right now is by my son Q.

And our supporting producers have really stepped up this year and helped make this show possible.

So big thanks to Augie Book, Joy Heising, No Name, Nancy Duff, Jenny Medeine, Kathleen Langerman, Jordan Jones, Ben, Jess, Beth Derry, Sarah Garifo, Cathy Sigmund, Sarah David, Mary Beth Berry, my high school gym teacher, Sheila, Crystal, Kaylee

Sakai, Virginia Labassi, Lizzie DeVries, Rachel Walton, David Binkley, Lisa Piven, Michelle Toms, Nicole Petey, Melody Swinford, Caroline Moss, my best friend, Michelle Oh, Andra Brzezinski, Amanda, Jess Blackwell, Abby Arose, Crystal Mann, Bonnie