Pep Talks 2

Last week’s pep talk episode (https://noraborealis.substack.com/p/stop-being-mean-to-yourself) was such a hit we’re back with more (and I’m making some phone calls today because WOW WE ARE ALL GOING THROUGH IT RIGHT NOW!!!)

Today we have two callers: a 32-year-old who feels lost after losing both of her parents and receiving a tough diagnosis, and a 23-year-old who is a little too wise beyond her years because of a traumatic childhood.

If you, too, are Going Through It, I promise you that your best is good enough and the problems you’re experiencing are not a personal failing but a symptom of a world that really just doesn’t do a great job of taking care of each other.

And, as a deeply biased podcast host, I am on your side.

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.

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How are you? Most of us say fine or good, but obviously it’s not always fine and sometimes it’s not even that good.

This is a podcast that gives people the space to be honest about how they really feel. It’s a place to talk about life, the good, the bad, the awkward, the complicated. I’m Nora McInerny and this is Thanks For Asking.

I’m Nora McInerny, and this is Thanks For Asking, the call-in show about What Matters to You. This is the second episode we have done that is essentially what I’m calling pep talks.

I think any talk can be a pep talk if one person is feeling a little bit down in the dumps and the other person has a deep seated codependency and wants everybody around them to be okay.

But in this case, both callers dialed in specifically requesting a pep talk. And it is not just them. After the last episode came out, the last pep talk episode, I got a lot of calls.

I got a lot of texts. I got a lot of requests for pep talk. So I’m recording this on a Monday.

It is coming out on a Tuesday. And you know what I’m going to do tomorrow on Tuesday? I am firing up the telephone and I’m going to be making some more pep talk calls.

And if you are a person who needs one, you might want to call us. You might want to text us.

I might be tapping in some friends in future episodes to really kind of round out our bases because I am just one woman and I am also, and I think I said this in the last episode, but I think it is worth saying repeatedly, I’m deeply biased.

And if you call me, I am on your side. You call me about anything, I’m going to take your side. I think you’re perfect.

I think probably everybody else is the problem. I don’t know that that’s the healthiest thing, but you know what? I’m not a therapist.

I’m a podcaster. And I am here for you. And I like doing these episodes because often when I’m giving somebody else a pep talk, and I do this daily, by the way, I do this for my friends.

I do this for my family. They don’t always love it. They’re like, look, mom, just like, let me exist.

And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, come here. Come here. Look into my eyes.

You’re perfect. You’re wonderful. Is something good is going to happen to you today?

Like put your shoulders back, stand up straight. I do this for people because I also, when I’m saying it to you, I am saying it to myself. Things are hard.

Life is hard. Life has always been hard.

But I do think that, you know, there are people, by the way, there’s always someone who’s like, well, actually, you know, when you look at the long arc of human existence, this is probably the best time to be alive. Well, OK. OK.

Well, in that case, no complaints. Everything’s fine. Come on.

Come on. OK. So so we don’t have, you know, the bubonic plague.

We have other problems that I think are they’re also valid. So these are two phone calls from two different listeners. You probably could have put that together because would somebody call twice?

Honestly, sometimes yes, sometimes yes. We’ve got two calls. We’ve got two pep talks.

And I don’t make these calls thinking, oh, there’s going to be a theme. But themes arise. Themes arise.

And in this case, I think the theme that I saw, that I heard, that I am hearing as we listen back to this, is that it is really lonely. It is lonely to be struggling. It is isolating to struggle because only the people who get it get it.

And a lot of people just don’t get it yet. So, if you are in it and you feel isolated, you feel like it is just you, it’s not, it’s not.

You are a person who is trying to get through a really difficult experience, which is being alive, being alive in the year 2025. And again, yes, there are people like, well, we got into our plumbing.

Okay, well, you know, we’re not, we’re not doing, you know, the things that we used to do. We’re doing different things. We’re doing different things.

And I think a lot of us are struggling with not just what the cards we are being dealt, but also being a part of a game where we are a part of a much larger system that really does not care what we’re going through.

You know, you’re going to have to jump through a lot of hoops. You’re going to have to prove the depth of your suffering or other people’s suffering to other people who are cogs in this larger system. And that’s very frustrating.

It’s very frustrating, especially to be in a country that is very wealthy, that is very prosperous, where some people are prospering much, much more than others.

And especially in the year 2025, we’ve really seen the villainization of need, of a need for any kind of assistance.

I do not think that anybody who needs disability, SNAP benefits, any other, Medicare, Social Security, those are not, those are not people to vilify. Those are not people to judge.

Those are not a drain on our system, the drain that our system is coming at the very top, guys. The call is coming from above the building, from somewhere around the building. It’s not an individual who is draining the country of our resources.

It is like maybe 10 individuals who run giant corporations and don’t pay enough taxes. And that is a rant for another time. But it’s also, I think, a rant for every time.

You cannot make a show called Terrible, Thanks For Asking, which I did for a long time, or a show called Thanks For Asking and ask people to be honest about what they are going through and not look a little bit higher than the person who is in front

of you. Just look up, look up. When you’re feeling stressed out, when you’re wondering who’s to blame, look up, up, up, up, up until your neck snaps.

You can barely see them because they are floating in rocket ships above the world because they gotta go colonize Mars. Rant over, let’s get into the phone calls. Okay, this is a text I got.

It says, Hi, Nora, I’m needing a pep talk about being a girl in my 20s. More specifically, how to enjoy being young with a bunch of serious stuff going on. I’m too much of an empath, a blessing, and a curse.

Let’s call her.

Hello.

Hi, it’s Nora McInerny.

Hi, how are you?

Hello. I’m very honored to speak to somebody in their 20s. So very, very honored.

And I do have to ask, what era of your 20s are you in right now? Like how into your 20s are you?

I like to still say I’m in the early 20s. I’m 23.

Oh, that’s early. That’s early.

I was just arguing with someone if I was hitting the mids yet and they told me no.

No, no, I think the mids is 25 to 27. Late is 28 and 29.

That makes more sense.

When do you think you’ll be in your mid 20s? I think 25, you have to hit the mid point before you’re in your mids.

Yeah, at first I was thinking like 24 to 27, but you know, when you’re 20, 21, it doesn’t even feel like you’re 20 yet.

No, no, I think 20 is like 20, you’re not in your 20s. You just happen to be 20. There’s something about 20 where I’m like, you don’t, it doesn’t count.

Like 20 is, you’re still very much like a little baby. And that’s, that’s, that’s what it is. So you were 23 and you are having a hard time enjoying being young with a bunch of serious stuff going on.

What’s the serious stuff?

So a little bit of, you know, stuff that is not currently going on, but I have just dealt with in the past is my dad being an alcoholic. He actually has not had a drink since I was about a sophomore or junior in high school.

So that’s a little bit of a past thing, but you know, still rebuilding our relationships as adults. And my oldest brother who I believe is 32 now, and I hope he doesn’t listen to this and know that I don’t know his age, but he’s around 32.

He is battling brain cancer for the second time.

Yeah, he’s in his early 30s.

He’s in his early 30s, and he has brain cancer for the second time.

Yes. So when I was a sophomore in high school, he had it the first time, stage four, and this time when we found it, it was again stage four, and he had surgery and everything, and is currently doing his chemo and radiation.

So I’m hoping that he’ll be in remission again. The sad part is that the cancer he has is uncurable. So they love to remind us that even if it goes away, it is likely to come back.

So there’s that part of it too.

Glioblastoma, I’m guessing?

Yes.

Yeah. It’s horrible. It’s horrible.

And my brother’s in the army.

He’s living in a different state with one of my nieces. So a little bit of, you know, trying to stretch myself to all my family and my friends and my fiance.

And, you know, sometimes I feel like there’s, there’s not a lot of me to give, not enough to go around.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I felt that way when I was 23 and I had literally no responsibilities and everything in my life was fine.

So, like objectively, like I had a crappy job that I didn’t love. But other than that, I was like, I had nothing going wrong and I didn’t have anybody relying on me in any way at all. And it’s, but I know that I had friends who did.

I know that I had friends whose lives were not kind of unfolding in that, the path that we think is going to be kind of typical, which I mean, you’ve already had kind of an atypical life, right?

Like it’s great for a dad to get sober when you’re in high school. But when you’re in high school, like you’re already pretty, you’re pretty cognizant. You kind of know what’s happened.

You know the weight of what’s going on. My dad was a recovering alcoholic, but he hadn’t drank since before I was born. And even then, I feel like the generational trauma still got to me.

Even though I had never witnessed that part of his personality. And I’m going to go on a limb and say you are the only one of your friends who has a brother with a aggressive terminal cancer.

I am, unfortunately. Well, I guess fortunately for them. But unfortunately, because, you know, I actually went to your podcast posted today and you mentioned, you know, even just one person that understands can make a difference.

So that’s where the unfortunately part comes from.

Yeah, one person, one person who gets it. And it is, it can be really hard to find those people. And I think it can also be hard when you’re young and you want the people around you to get it.

And they just kind of can’t, not because they don’t want to, but because it’s just so different from their reality. And I say that as a person who like one of my closest friends lost his dad when we were like 26, 27.

And I know that I did not show up in a meaningful or helpful way, because I truly was like, well, God, I don’t know, your dad’s dead. I guess I’ll just never mention my dad again, or your dad, and just pretend it never happened.

And that’s how we’ll get through it. We just won’t talk about it. And so your brother’s nine years older than you.

That’s the age difference between, now my sister’s eight years older than me, but that’s like a big person in your life too.

It’s almost like I’m thinking about the age difference between my kids too, which is like their older brother is almost a celebrity to them in some ways, because of the age difference.

Yeah. And with the stuff that my dad was going through, in a lot of ways, he was a parent for me. And did a lot of the dad things and drove me places, took me to school, made my lunch, did all that.

So we have a very close relationship.

Yeah.

He’s a good boy.

And it’s like never the horrible people we know who get brain cancer. I don’t know why, but terrible people just live forever with no health issues. And then the best people we know get brain cancer.

I know.

And my grandma passed away a few years ago and she was god on earth. I’m not even religious, but if I was, she would be god. She was just the sweetest woman and she died suddenly.

And I kind of had the same kind of mindset where I was like, why is it the good people?

Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, you’re having a hard time enjoying your life.

And I got to say, like, that makes sense. Like, you know, like, that makes sense. That makes sense.

I think your 20s are hard regardless, just because you’re 23 years old. And we really expect people to have everything figured out when they’re 23. Like, you graduated college, you are engaged, right?

Like, you’re, like, hitting all of these, like, adulthood milestones. And don’t you kind of still feel like a baby?

I do. I sometimes feel like I’m still a baby. Why do I have to do these things?

And other times, I feel like I’m 80 years old and have lived a full life already.

Yeah, yeah. What are you doing for work right now?

Right now, I work as a caseworker for kids with mental illness. And so I teach them coping skills and communication skills, and definitely have a little bit of imposter syndrome.

Sometimes they mention they’re struggling with something, and I just want to say, you know what? I have no idea.

I couldn’t tell you, but it’s really helped me try to find advice, try to give them motivation, because sometimes I do take that, and I try to practice what I preach. I know it’s easier said than done.

But so I’m doing that right now to hopefully become a therapist once I finish my master’s degree.

Okay, that’s amazing.

You’re 23, you’re engaged, you’re pursuing a master’s degree, you’re working with kids who are also experiencing trauma. Like, you don’t have, it doesn’t feel like you have a lot of space in your life where like you get a break.

I definitely do not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And also all this is like all these, you know, this stuff with your brother and like this is also happening against like a bigger backdrop, which is like our country is falling apart and we’re just being shown like new levels of callousness and

inhumanity on like a macro level. And then like on the micro level, like you’re witnessing this, like you’re witnessing our health care system, you’re witnessing our mental health care system, like you’re witnessing like how this next generation of

kids is feeling like that is a lot. Like, and that’s all, that’s all like real stuff. You know what I mean? This isn’t like just early 20s ennui, like what does it all mean?

This is you taking on a lot of life stuff really early and really young.

Sometimes I just have to sit with that. I like to, kind of like I mentioned, rush and I have the mindset of like, well, if I keep going and just keep getting things done, I’ll never fall behind.

But sometimes I really just need to just be and just relax and take time. But I am not very good at that. I figure, you know, if I have five minutes that I should call everyone else and check on them instead of doing something for myself.

That’s where I come up short a little bit is my own needs.

Yeah, I think I think if you have five minutes, you should do something that only you want to do. Like because because this is a lot. It’s a lot to have a brother who is like a father figure to you be sick.

And I really do think brain cancer is specifically horrifying. And there is something that is uniquely horrifying to brain cancer, which is like our brains are really important. And that’s where you keep your sense of self.

And that’s where your brother’s personality is saved. And the memories of him making you lunch and taking care of you and all of that.

And there’s this helplessness that I experienced watching brain cancer, which is like, I wish I could just reach inside of you and take it out. And I can’t.

And so everything that I do or want to do or can do just feel so insignificant because I can’t fix it for you.

Exactly.

And you’re going into a field, too, where you are going to witness so many things that you can’t fix for people but that you just have to witness for them.

Yeah. And sitting with the discomfort is something that I definitely hate to do. I do not like to be uncomfortable.

I like to avoid, avoid, avoid. But it doesn’t end up being helpful a lot of the time.

Yeah.

But you say you avoid it, but also then you’re working in this, like you’re choosing this field that like where you have to truly run towards people’s like worst days and put yourself directly in the path of other people’s struggle and their pain.

And I think that’s very meaningful and I think that’s very powerful.

And to survive in that career and this hard world, like you are going to have to find and hold on tight to even like the small things that like bring you joy because they’re going to mean so much more.

Like you’re 23, I think that 23-year-olds have two responsibilities, which is like be hot and have fun. And you’re hot, but like are you having any fun?

Like, yeah, I need to hit both marks.

Yeah, you got to have some fun. You have to like have fun. And I used to find it so offensive when people would say, like, what do you do for fun?

I was like, okay, that’s an inappropriate question. Like, first of all, what do I do for fun? I don’t have fun.

I work, right? Like I take care of things. I take care of people.

That’s what I do for fun. My fun is making sure other people have fun.

Exactly. Stupid people blazer.

Yeah, it’s like you deserve to have fun. Like you deserve to like be, you know, 23 in some context. And, you know, like you mentioned too, I’ve felt this so much where it’s like, sometimes I feel like a baby.

And sometimes I feel like I’m 600 years old and I have been on this earth far too long.

Exactly.

But like you’ll never be 23 again. You will never be at this exact space in your life again. And that is a comfort when things are difficult to me, right?

To be like, this is the only time I have to do it, right? This is the only time.

And it is sometimes scary to me when life is good or when there are even like elements of life that are good, because I’m like, I’ll never, I’ll never feel this again, right? Or I’ll never like be exactly here again.

And I think that’s what gives life meaning, but that’s also what makes it kind of overwhelming and scary. And honestly, I was not thinking this deeply when I was 23. This is a blessing for you, but it is also a curse.

You’re cursed.

Yeah. And this is kind of what I mean when I say I’m 60. Literally since I was little and it might be a little bit of the trauma, but people always say, like you’re wise beyond your years.

And now I’m like, I don’t know if that’s a compliment. I think it just means that I have had to be resilient for so, like I shouldn’t be thinking of these things.

I know. I know. It’s true.

And like, you know, it’s of course, of course you’re wise beyond your years because you watched your teenage brother get you ready for school.

You know, like you watched him like grow up and you watched, like you saw like a lot of things that like, you know, you were never meant to see and you experienced a lot of things that you were never meant to experience.

And these are things that make you so good at what you were choosing to do with your life.

And these are also things that if you don’t protect that access to joy and lolling, you know, just like having a good, having a good giggle, having a little bit of fun, that will like completely overwhelm you.

Yeah.

Like you really do need some, you need some fun. You need some fun. Okay.

I know.

I’ll go to the bar this weekend.

You need some fun and I am going to, I’m going to read you a poem, okay?

Okay. Okay.

This is, this was my, my theme for 2024. And I like still have it, like hanging around my house and my office too, to like remind me. It’s by Kate Bear.

I love her as a person. I love her as a poet. The poem is called Idea.

And it goes, I will enjoy this life. I will open it like a peach in season, suck the juice from every finger, run my tongue over my chin. I will not worry about cliches or uninvited guests peering in my windows.

I will love and be loved, save and be saved a thousand times. I will let the want into my body, bless the heat under my skin. My life, I will not waste it.

I will enjoy this life. And that is what I want for you.

I need that printed off in my house.

Google Kate Bear, I will enjoy this life, print it on your home printer, print it on your work computer, do a little light theft and keep it somewhere where you can see it.

Take the image, save it to your phone and look at it every day because you do deserve to enjoy this life even in this part of it that is so hard.

And everybody you know, whose life seems to be unfolding exactly as planned, all your friends who you’re like, well, they didn’t have to wake their dad up from his quote unquote nap on the floor when they got home from kindergarten.

You know, like they didn’t have to, you know, all this stuff like their brother’s not dying.

Like, trust me when I say, like life comes for us all and you are strengthening muscles that they have not had to use yet, but they will need to and they will be so grateful to have you and all of your wisdom in the future.

While they are enjoying being young and dumb, you will get to be dumb later in life. You have your whole life to be young and dumb, you know?

Yeah. I don’t even put an age cap on it.

Yeah. Okay. You do.

You do.

But yeah, think of that as like a way of taking care of yourself is like finding the things that you enjoy and like making that time because it’s not a waste of time to like nurture in yourself the things that make you feel good or the things that

even just make you feel okay because you are holding a lot. You’ve been holding a lot, it sounds like, you know, your entire life. And you’re signing up to hold even more in that career.

Yeah, I am.

You know? So you’re not here just to pull other people through things, like you’re here to have your own experience too. And I think if, I think your brother would feel that same way, and your dad would feel that same way.

And anyone who knows you, who would like hear you say, well, if I have five minutes, I should take care of someone else, would be like screaming, being like, no, like we’re fine. Like the awareness that your generation has, I am so envious of.

Like just the fact that you are this emotionally intelligent age 23. Your 40s are going to be so great. Well, thank you.

I’ll have to give you another call in my 40s.

Hello, this is Janie.

All right. What are…

Oh.

Can you hear me?

Yeah, I can hear you. Oops.

Okay, I’m tangled in white. One second. Okay, that’s not good.

And sparks from… it’s very dry, so… There’s so much static, I can see it.

Is that scary?

Oh my gosh, yes.

Like, I… I just…

ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

Okay, I gotta stay very still. I’m making way too much static. Anyways, Janie, what are we talking about?

Um, so we are talking about a general pep talk for life.

Um, I’m not sure if you saw my email from yesterday, but made a call back to your TED Talk and said, I made a lot of fun. Oh, babe. So I’m a lot of fun.

Babe, me too, okay.

Um, so basically just a quick rundown of like the last few years.

So I’m currently 32, but I lost both of my parents within the last couple of years. Um, actually lost my dad to GBM, glioblastoma.

Hate it.

Hate it so much. Hate it. It would be fucking worse.

So bad.

Um, and then I lost my mom to diabetes.

And then if that weren’t enough, and it wasn’t, and it wasn’t, okay, it wasn’t.

That’s not enough. Make me sadder, please. Thank you.

Never enough.

Um, so I have pretty intense anxiety, depression and PTSD from all of that.

Yeah.

But when my mom passed away, I actually ended up having a seizure right afterwards and was diagnosed with epilepsy that I had had my entire life.

You had it your entire life. What do you mean?

So I had it my whole life. I just didn’t know. I thought I was having anxiety attacks all the time.

Turns out I was actually having seizures all the time. Um, so that was fun to learn and pretty terrifying to figure out that.

My jaw is on the floor.

It was unbelievable. I literally was like, wait, what? What?

Come again? Like, excuse me.

The human body is so miraculous and absolutely stupid. Weak, prone to defect. Like, like, what are you talking about?

I thought I was having a panic. Horrifying. Oh my God.

Yes.

So that was extremely horrifying. And then after that, I realized that a lot of my really big seizures were tied to my job. So I ended up quitting my job, leaving the workforce, and I’m trying to get on disability benefits.

Yeah.

Which has been one of the most difficult and confusing things I’ve ever done in my entire life.

So that’s been, again, a lot of fun.

And we love, we love the system. They’re so wonderful.

So easy, so easy to find somebody to talk to, to give you answers. Ha. It has been impossible to get a hold of anybody.

I swear I spend most of my life on hold with Social Security nowadays.

Yeah.

And so yeah, all of that.

Have you been to the office?

Yes, I have. I have. And it only works if you have an appointment.

So I went once without an appointment and I was there for like five hours. Nothing happened. And then I went on same.

I went with a baby. Yep. Yep.

Exactly. And so I made an appointment for the next time. It went a little bit smoother.

But I’ve actually found making phone appointments gets you a lot further than being in person. So I’ve been trying to do this is a this is a great life hack.

OK, that’s news people can use.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Of course. Of course. Yeah, definitely go for the phone calls, phone appointments over the in-person ones, because they’re a lot easier and a lot less stressful, because you don’t have to go down to the actual building.

You don’t have to see people. You don’t have to talk to the people that are working there, because God bless them. That’s got to be a horrifying job and I would be miserable.

Yeah, it’s it’s and then it’s I’ve always forgotten one very key piece of paperwork.

Yes, always.

That can’t be printed.

Yeah, can’t be can’t be procured in any other way. I’m like, okay.

Yeah, okay. Exactly.

Back I go.

The one time I go. Yeah, exactly. The one time I had to actually go down to the office for Social Security was because apparently they had had my birth date wrong since I was born.

So they had me born in the wrong month. So I wasn’t able to do any of the disability stuff online to begin with because they didn’t because you were entering. Yes.

Wow. So I had been entering my actual birthday, but they had some other birthday in there. So I had to do, that’s what forced me to do everything over the phone at first, which ended up working out in my favor.

But I did have to go down in person with multiple forms showing, this is when I was born, here’s my birth certificate, here’s my this, here’s my that, and they fixed it. So now I’m able to do things online.

But I couldn’t believe that pretty much my entire life had been wrong. They didn’t have the right birthday in there. So of course, I wasn’t able to get anything done.

Oh my God.

Then it’s like, you’re like, you’re the government. How did you not know that?

Right?

How did you not know this? That’s why people are like, it’s a government conspiracy. I’m like, I don’t know guys.

They didn’t even know that I didn’t have a middle name, Janie. But I was going through life saying I did. It was on my passport.

It wasn’t even a real middle name. I just made it up. It wasn’t on my birth certificate.

Never got questioned. I had no idea. Okay?

No idea. And then the truth comes out, your birthday is actually a different day and I don’t have a middle name. Yeah, that’s a lot.

That’s a lot. And I did see in your message to me that like you feel down on yourself.

Yeah, just kind of, I guess the best way to put it is like, I wish I could just have a normal, freaky life. I wish I could work.

I wish I could be able to, you know, call my mom and say, Hey, I’m really frustrated about this going on or call my dad or do any of the normal, like I have parents things and I feel very kind of just like on my own about all of it.

And then I’m hard on myself. So then I’m like, you know, why aren’t you doing this? Why aren’t you trying harder?

Why don’t you just try again to have a job? Even though the last two times you’ve had a job, you’ve had two major seizures. And I just, I kind of, I’m just hard on myself, I guess.

Yeah, I can hear that.

And it’s such crazy conditioning of, like, American capitalist, like, pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality that you can be saying these two things. The last times I tried to work, I had major seizures. And why aren’t I just doing it anyway?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, it’s so normalized to just sacrifice yourself and your body and your wellness and your well-being for the sake of something. And we just aren’t a culture that prioritizes any kind of care.

So I hope if anybody is listening to this that is like, oh, dismantle Social Security. Oh, people, like, don’t want to work. Like, I don’t think that’s it.

I don’t think it’s people are leaping over the chance to have a abnormal life in order to get the very bare minimum of themselves taken care of to then be, like, you know, kind of devalued and ostracized by contemporary society over the fact that,

Right.

And that’s not yours to carry.

You know what I mean? That’s not yours. Like, you didn’t do anything.

Did you, did you choose epilepsy?

Nope.

The way some people choose joy?

Yeah, no. Okay.

Did you choose incorrectly? Cause I have seen a lot of a previous caller said that, you know, before her sister experienced like this major loss that her license plate said, choose joy.

I was like, oops.

It’s like, oops, oops. Cause sometimes we can, right? But like we don’t actually get to choose this stuff.

You didn’t choose to lose your parents. Your parents didn’t, you know, choose their horrible diseases. Nobody is like, you know what I really want to do?

I really want to like get a, I’m going to grow a glioblastoma. I’m going to grow a hugely. And you probably watched your dad go through, you know, the unemployment process, the short-term, long-term disability process.

And it’s like, and you kind of have to like prove it. You’re like, he has something growing in his brain.

Yeah, exactly. And I had to go through it with my mom as well. My mom was actually blind from her diabetes.

And the government did not believe that she was blind. They had to give a second medical test so that they could then verify that she was blind because.

And the test is like just someone walking up to her and being like, think fast and drawing a ball.

Exactly. Exactly. And like, you know, when my mom started to go blind, we actually kind of did that kind of stuff.

I would like move my hand really fast towards her face to be like, are you really not being able to see me? And when I realized she wasn’t flinching or anything, I was like, all right, blind.

Okay. Yep.

There we go.

And that’s how you test for blindness.

Okay.

And that’s how you do it. And that’s how you do it. Yeah, it actually, it makes me really sad for you.

It makes me really mad for you that while you’re just trying to take care of yourself, that you’re putting on like this extra, it just exoskeleton of judgment on yourself.

Because if literally anyone else was telling you this story, you would meet them with so much tenderness and so much understanding. You would be like, babe, you are doing your best. Like, it’s okay.

And it is. And also, of course you would wave a wand and have a different kind of situation if you could, but you can’t. And as, you know, in comprehensive and inadequate as these systems are, like, they’re there for you.

Like, they exist for a reason. They exist for this exact situation, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, no, you’re completely right. And I’ve had so many people throughout my entire life tell me, you know, talk to yourself the way you would talk to a friend.

If a friend was coming to you with these problems, what would you say? You wouldn’t say, shut up, bitch. Which is what I say to myself.

I would never say it to my friends. And so I think that’s a huge takeaway from this is just to continue to talk to myself as if I’m my own friend and, you know, try to give myself a little bit more grace when it comes to all of this.

Can I prescribe something to you? Have you listened to Meghan Trainor lately?

Not lately, but I definitely will.

When I tell you, when I tell you that she made, she makes the best self-esteem bops of all time. And hold on, there’s a song that goes like, I want to be my bestie, want to be my, be my bestie.

I’m looking it up in my library right now, because obviously that’s on Heavy Rotation. Oh yeah. Okay, it’s on Timeless Deluxe.

It’s called Bestie.

Bestie.

It’s called Bestie. And also Crushing, which is about having a crush on yourself.

Oh, heck yeah.

And I want to thank me. Oh yeah. Also Beautiful, also Ben Like This, also yeah, this entire album, Timeless Deluxe, is truly like a bunch of self-esteem bops that I play for my kids all the time.

Because I’m like, I don’t want them to feel like this, you know? And someday you’re going to be 70 years old, 80 years old, and you’re going to look back at this version of yourself and be like, oh, honey, like, it’s already hard enough.

You don’t have to make it harder on yourself. You don’t have to be mean to you.

Yeah, that’s a very, very good point. It’s hard enough and I don’t need to make it any harder on myself. You’re so right.

Do you know that I keep a post-it on my computer in the other room where I would take it, right?

You can’t see me. What does it matter? I have a post-it that I keep in a place where I see it every day that says, don’t make it harder.

Don’t make it harder. It’s like I love to make it harder on myself. If I can be mean to myself, well, then I guess maybe it’ll prevent.

No, I don’t know. It does nothing. It does absolutely nothing for you.

Yeah.

No, you’re absolutely right. It makes me feel a little bit better that there’s someone else out there who does it too. You make it harder for yourself, but at the same time, I like you so much that I wouldn’t want you to do that.

So it’s like, why don’t I like myself like that? I got to treat myself the way I treat people around me.

Yes. Okay. I also did recently, I did The Artist’s Way.

So it’s like any good cult, like you got to tell people about it.

Oh yeah.

But first I like bought the book and like donated it like 10 or 12, like so many times. But anyways, there’s this sentence that you have to write and then like make it into like a piece of art for yourself and this one is right here.

And it says, like this is something that she prescribes. And so I’m going to make you do this too, which is treating myself like a precious object makes me stronger. And I was like, okay, I guess.

And I like watercolor, did a little watercolor wash and wrote it. And I was like, well, I don’t know. But I think about that all, now I think about it all the time, because I do see this every day.

I’m like, treat yourself like a precious object. We want you stronger. Take the resources that are available to you.

That is what they are there for. We are not saving them for like, you know, when it’s like really bad. It’s bad.

Yeah.

It’s like, how bad does it have to get?

Right.

Like take care of yourself.

Like where you are now does not mean you’re going to be there forever. It does not mean that like, oh, you’re never going to be able to work a day in your life. But like something’s happening.

You deserve like space and time and a little bit of safety, a lot of bit of safety to make yourself strong.

Yeah, you are absolutely right. I’m writing that down that I deserve safety because that’s something that you know, that’s something that I have not felt in a very long time.

And so that’s a really good goal to kind of look forward to in the future to say, you know what? This is something that I want and I want to feel safe and I want to help myself get there, not just look for it in like external places.

Because I can give it to myself.

Yes. Yeah. Be so good to yourself.

And when you hear this album by Meghan Trainor, I’m telling you, I like myself so much.

It might start to get out of hand after I listen to Meghan Trainor.

There’s a line in the song that says like, I’m not hating on myself no more, that’s dumb. And I was like, oh my God, it is dumb.

That is dumb, right?

That’s so embarrassing, like why would I do that? It is. Why would I do that?

It is.

It’s so, it’s so inappropriate.

It’s like, don’t do that. You would never do that to somebody else.

Exactly, exactly. And that’s like, honestly, one of the main things I’m taking away from this is that just treat myself the way I will treat other people.

And I got to say, I’m pretty fricking nice for being as much fun as I am, but I’m pretty fricking nice. So why don’t I just do that for myself too?

Yeah, be as nice to yourself as you are being to other people. Like, it’s so bananas that we don’t do that.

It really is. It’s absolutely bananas.

It’s so bananas. Like, treat yourself like a precious object makes you stronger. And also, okay, so I have this niece who’s like 17, such a sweet pea, shout out Josie.

And we’re all playing cards and my mother in law goes, oh, sorry, I’m dumb. And Josie like stops the game and is like, don’t say that. Like, don’t talk about yourself that way.

Like, you’re my grandma. Like, I don’t, you’re not dumb. Don’t say that.

And I was like, oh, yeah, that’s, that’s true. Like, don’t say that. Don’t say that.

Because like, you’re always listening. Yourself is always listening. Like, why not say the best things about yourself?

You know?

Because I think I’ve been so kind of just caught up in it the last, however many years it’s been, that it’s been hard to realize, like, oh, a lot of time has gone by, and this has been a very hard period and chapter of my life, which has been a

Yeah.

And this is how you do it. Like, this is how you do it, is like taking the space and making the space for yourself because you cannot build from nothing. Nobody does, you know?

Like, you can’t build from, you know, sand that is being just like constantly, like, swept away by, like, these just waves of loss. And so you got to get yourself to, like, that safe place where you can build for yourself.

And it doesn’t have to be big and fancy. It doesn’t mean that you have to have, like, you know, like, the biggest aspirations or, like, the biggest dreams. You deserve them if you want them.

But also, like, having a good life is good enough. Like, that’s better than most people ever have. Even people who, like, seem like they have everything, like, don’t have a life that they like or that feels safe to them.

So, and that’s what I want for you, Janie. I want you to, like, have, I want you to be so nice to yourself. And, like, this isn’t your entire story.

This is a part of it. And you do get to, to, you have a hand in it. Like, some things happen to us, and some things, like, we, you know, do have, like, some amount of control over.

And if you can figure out this Byzantine maze-like system and get yourself, like, a safety net, you fucking deserve it. That’s what it’s there for.

Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

And I happily pay, I happily pay taxes for that.

Yeah.

Truly.

Yeah.

I really do.

Yeah.

Okay.

Absolutely.

Like, those are, those are our tax dollars at work. Good. I hope our tax dollars are doing that.

Yeah.

Honestly, same. Same.

You know, you paid taxes. You paid taxes. That’s why you paid them.

That’s why you paid them. Yeah.

Yeah. No, you’re absolutely right. And I’m, I’m really hoping things work out the way that they’re supposed to.

I did, I got denied once already for the disability, but I’m in the process of doing the appeal right now. Because they essentially told me like, oh, you’re disabled. You’re just not disabled enough.

But we’re going to, we’re going to take another look at this. Just give us a little bit more evidence. Like, okay.

All right. Sure.

Yeah. Thank you. Fine.

I’ll go have more seizures at work. And maybe next time I’ll like break my neck.

Right?

Then I’ll be disabled enough for you. Okay. Then will it be enough?

My God.

And they told me I wasn’t depressed enough. And I’m like, well, do I need to be threatening, you know, the thing all the time?

Because how depressed do you need me to be? Because I am about to get there real quick. Exactly.

Like, just tell me what you want for me and I’ll give it to you.

And it’s like, we also it’s such big work to do, to like, break your value apart from what you are doing like, professionally.

And I know people who have never done that because like, everyone’s like, but what do you do? What do you do? What do you do?

Yes.

What do you do?

What do you do? And what do you have? And what do you have?

Okay. Okay. What do you have to show for it?

Okay.

Right. Exactly.

But what’s next? What’s next? What’s next?

And it’s like, dude, can I just chill?

Yeah. Exactly. Can I just take a second?

So thank you.

Yes.

I hope I get it too.

Give me a second. Take a second. Take as many seconds as you can, but you deserve safety.

Thank you so much.

All right.

Bye, Janey.

Bye.

Sorry, I went over our time. That’s okay. And also the whole time that I was talking to a camera, it wasn’t on.

So that’s cool.

That’s amazing. That is amazing.

We’re doing great. Okay.

We’re living the dream. Bye.

All right, so that’s this week’s episode. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, it is not just you, it is not just you. Shout out to anybody right now who is trying to navigate these difficult systems, as Marcel pointed out.

It’s really interesting that if you need something from the government, you gotta jump through all of these hoops to get help. But if they need money from you, they’re gonna get it.

They’re gonna get it, they’re gonna get it fast, and they’re going to get it forcefully. It’s just kind of interesting, kind of interesting by interesting. I mean, extremely frustrating.

It is a great honor to be able to take your phone calls, to be trusted with your stories. These episodes are made possible by our supporting producers. We have a Substack.

It’s noraboriales.substack.com. That is where you can get, you know, ad-free episodes of the podcast, archives of everything we do, weekly writing is where I’m putting all of my work.

And supporting producers are the people who have signed up at the highest level, have gotten an annual membership and said, you know what, I want to throw a couple more bucks in, especially given the economics of everything lately.

That really is a pretty incredible thing. And so we are very, very grateful to all of our listeners. But special shout out to our supporting producers.

I’m talking about Ben.

I’m talking about Jess, Michelle Toms, Tom Stockburger, Jen, Beth Derry, Stacey DeMorrow, Emily Ferriso, Stephanie Johnson, Faye Barons, Amanda, Sarah Garifo, Jennifer McDagle in all caps, Elia Feliz-Milan, Lindsay Lund, Renee Kepke, Chelsea Siernik,

Car Pan. I think she just put that as a nickname, but you know what, that’s who you are now. LGS, Stacey Wilson, Courtney McCown, Kaylee Sakai, Mary Beth Barry, that’s my gym teacher from high school. Love you, love you, Ms.

Barry. Joe Theodosopoulos, Mad, Abby Arouse, Arouse? I don’t know, it’s so beautiful.

Elizabeth Berkley, Kim F.

Melody Swinford, Val, Lauren Hanna, Katie, Jessica Latexier, Crystal Mann, Lisa Piven, Kate Lyon, Christina, Sarah David, Kate Byerjohn, Erin John, Joy Pollock, Crystal, Jennifer Pavelka, Jess Blackwell, Micah, Jessica Reed, Beth Lippem, Kiara, Jill

MacDonald, Jen Grimlin, Alexis Lane, David Binkley, Kathy Ham, Virginia Labassi, Lizzie De Vries, Jeremy Essen, Ann DeBrasinski, Robin Roulard, Nicole Petey, Monica, Caroline Moss, Rachel Walton, Inga, Bonnie Robinson, Shannon Dominguez-Stevens,

Penny Pesta, which is the Coyutist name. Being named Penny Pesta is such a powerful move. I just cannot believe that some people have all the luck. Kaylee, Dave Gilmore and Jacqueline Ryder. Thank you, everybody, for being here.

If you want to upgrade your membership, you can do that over on Substack. We do have to do it on the desktop app, which is so bizarre and annoying. And if you can’t, honestly, no big deal.

Life is hard. You being here is also a gift to us. So again, if you want to call in for any reason, the number is 612-568-4441.

You can call, you can text. This episode was produced by Marcel Malekibu. And guess who just came back to the team?

It’s Grace Berry, everybody. Grace Berry is back. All right, we’ll see you again soon.

And remember to call, remember to text. I’ll be making some phone calls the day this comes out. So keep your phone on you.