IGTBO, TFA (Part 2)

Take a break from the doom and disaster and reset your psyche with some okay things.

We won’t ever say “everything is going to be okay” but we will do our best to find and focus on even the littlest okay things around us that aren’t the very worst.

Keep the bar low and your head up.

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.

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Um, how are you? Most of us say fine or good, but obviously it’s not always fine and sometimes it’s not even that good.

This is a podcast that gives people the space to be honest about how they really feel. It’s a place to talk about life, the good, the bad, the awkward, the complicated. I’m Nora McInerny, and this is Thanks For Asking.

Hi, everybody, I’m Nora McInerny. This is Thanks For Asking, the call-in show where we talk about what matters to you. And the theme of today’s episode is it’s going to be okay.

We never say everything will be okay. It’s not accurate, and I think everybody knows that. I think that is an aspirational phrase, but it doesn’t really reflect the reality, which is that, look around, look around, guys.

There’s a lot that is not okay and will not be okay and never will be okay. And also, I think it is important when things feel so big, so bad, that we hold on as much as we can to whatever small amount of okayness that we can.

So that’s what we do in episodes like this. We take your calls about the okay things in your life, the things that feel like they’re gonna at least get you through the day.

And a note about this recording day, I was unable to connect with one of our callers. She had scheduled a call, I called, she wasn’t available. She called back, she said, oh, I’m so sorry, I kind of spaced, like I’m at the hospital.

I said, oh, okay. You’re at the hospital and that was not the time for you to be worried about a podcast. But Jessica, if you are listening to this, I’m thinking about you.

I’m thinking about you all day. She is entering the palliative care stage of marriage with her husband. Her husband who is very much too young to be entering palliative care.

And so this episode is for you, Jessica. This episode is for you, listener, whoever you are. If you are in the thick of the awfulness where nothing feels like it is okay, I promise you it will not always feel like this.

It won’t.

And this is not meant to, these kinds of episodes, these kinds of conversations are not meant to minimize the very real suffering that is going on in the world or going on in our lives, but it is to throw out a little bit of a life preserver to each

other to say, look, I am going to share something that brightened my day and hope that it brightens yours as well. So let’s get into it.

Hello.

Okay, take three. Take three. Here we go.

This is it.

Otherwise, it’s cursed.

And so many things have been cursed today, but not this.

Not this.

Not this.

It was so good, we had to do it again.

It was, the call was so good that I said, let’s do it again and then wait, let’s do it a third time. So Amber, thank you for for everything, for everything, because, you know, I’m going to just tell everybody, we had this conversation.

It was so great. I said, that was the best, that was the best thing I’ll hear all day.

And no one will never be able to recreate the magic of what we had, but we are going to embrace that because you have a very okay thing to share with us today that I think, and I don’t want to oversell this, I think it could really change people’s

You know, it doesn’t take much at this point.

You know, when you’re searching for something that says, am I going to be okay? And I need someone to tell me that it’s at least okay. The bar is very low.

So I do feel like I can at least step over that very low bar.

The bar is so low. You are, you’re an American. I’m an American.

We know the bar is, the bar is gone, okay? So we have to dig up the bar.

It’s buried.

So we can.

You have to dug in the hole and put it underneath. We have to look for the bar. And then find it.

No one has seen the bar in a minute.

Not anytime.

Our goal today is simply to find the bar and then see if we could creep over it slowly.

And I think we can.

Yes, I do. And I think it’s fitting because this story really has to do with creatures that crawl on dirt and make it grimy. And I think that that really brings us home.

Because what we discussed before, again, is that what I want to talk to you about today is not Our Lord and Savior, but it is about geese.

It’s geese.

And they are everywhere pooping.

Yeah, everywhere, everywhere. My children and my niece called a park near our neighborhood Goose Poop Park because you could not walk on the grass.

And sometimes I would, and I would think, oh, they aerated it, you know, like how sometimes they, you know.

Oh, yeah, it’s those little tubey things.

Yes, and you think, wow, they really care about this park. And then you realize, no, that’s not aeration. That’s goose crap.

There it is.

And I, we like to treat it, you know, I think a lot of us like to maybe treat it like a little fun obstacle course that we didn’t have to pay for and try to sidestep it because getting it on your shoes is also disgusting.

So I think this just is a great entry in the fact that geese, if they do something for us.

I do eat animals, but I am, and this is probably an offensive thing to say to a vegetarian, but it’s like I am picky about the animals I eat because I don’t want to eat something ugly. And that’s why I don’t eat fish.

Yes. Well, I would say again, if I’m missing the point of geese, I know they fly, I know they go places, they come back, but really, I just know that they poop on things and it’s slimy and gross and-

And they’ll fight you.

That they’re mean. Yes. And that they’re mean.

Yeah.

Real mean.

And that they travel in groups.

Yes. Packs or- Packs.

Gaggle.

Gaggle. And there’s apparently on birdfact.com a whole post called Collective Nouns for Geese, What’s the Official Terms? And there’s a lot of them.

So you could go and find your best one. I really found this one amusing, which is a plump of geese. Usually, I just hear gaggle, but a plump of geese.

Apparently, different nouns, depending on if they are flying or swimming or harassing people in the street. I don’t know what that word is. But-

and that’s about why they’re bad. The whole point of this is to talk about why I’m okay with geese. And so, let’s address that, shall we?

Yes.

So, I don’t remember how long it’s been since this has given me-

hope seems like a strong word, but happiness will say happiness. The possibility of hope-

You know we’re running through a rough year where we say, not hope, but-

That’s not hope. That’s too strong. Yeah, that’s too strong word.

But they give me the possibility that I could be hopeful again.

Okay.

And what it has to do is when I am in a public locale, often when I am driving, sometimes in my neighborhood, it might be on a couple-lane road, but especially when it’s on a multi-lane road.

And I see a large group of geese meandering, ambling, not in any sort of rush.

A plump of geese, a gaggle.

A plump of geese, gaggling along. And they are in no hurry, and they will not be bothered. You cannot hurry them, you cannot rush them, you cannot steeply advance your car and hope that it will urge them into urgency.

They just will do what they want. And despite the fact that they are mean, poopy, and I don’t know what they do for us, somehow people still do not just accelerate over them.

And even sometimes they will join with each other to help get the geese safely across the street. And I don’t know why. Like we don’t have to, we could just kill them.

But we don’t as humanity. And the most recent time that this really stuck out with me, I was driving to Target, as one does. My daughter was in the car.

And it was a six lane situation, three going one way, three going the other way. And it was backed up on both sides because geese were kind of midway through both sets of traffic. And a very large truck with some camo situation.

A man had parked that truck, I mean, yes, we were all parked in the middle of the street, but he committed to it because he got out of his vehicle.

And he was stopping cars and directing traffic and kind of, I guess, as one might do with cattle, with his arm kind of like a whooping motion to get the geese across the street.

Oh, he’s hurting.

Everyone was listening. Yes, people were doing what he told them to do. Everyone, lots of cars for these geese.

God, yeah.

Everyone cooperating.

Yes.

Saying, we gotta get these geese off the road.

For why? To let them go poop in another field. I don’t know.

Yeah, they have to get to target too.

They’ve got their own errands to run.

They have many things to spend money on and just wonder later, what did I just buy? Just that moment where you think there has to still be some good in the world.

Yeah.

That we are letting these geese direct our time and our traffic in our big cars, that we don’t have to be run over. We can just stop and let this happen. My fear one day is that a car will not do that, and then I will not have hope again.

But for so far, that has not happened.

Yeah. Yeah. Same.

Same. I’ve never seen somebody accelerate into a gaggle or a gang or a plump of geese. I have only seen people give up and stop their car.

And I’ve never seen somebody get out and try to herd them. But that would give me hope too.

But I’m feeling a glimmer of hope based on what you said, which is like, there’s got to be, there’s a goodness inside of us that says, even if this is one of the uglier birds in the world, even if it’s not on, it’s not even ranking on, birdfact.com

Oh no, I didn’t know that.

I went right to the rankings, baby.

This is my new favorite website. I can’t believe that I just, they’re not anywhere on this list. I’m down to 67, 68, 70.

Oh wow.

70, I’m not seeing.

I’m seeing a red legged partridge and a common rose finch. I’ve yet to see a goose. People are not fans.

They’re not in the top 100. And I’m gonna say I’m a little, the rose ringed parakeet is number 100. Are you kidding me?

That seems a little, oh man, they show where the rankings.

These are birds I’ve never heard of.

And they’re still ranking higher than a common goose. And they’re ranking higher than a common goose. No one, no one wants a common goose.

Like there’s someone out there, and if this is you, show yourself. If you know the purpose of a goose, if you’re a goose fanatic, yes, we want you to call in. However, I also want to set a hard boundary here.

If you’ve seen somebody intentionally run over a goose, we don’t want to know. We don’t want to know that. We want to believe in the goodness of people and to call even in the face of geese.

Even in the face of geese, we, you know, you have to find your places to hold on to hope, like feelings, to hold on to what could approximate okayness.

And you just, you hold it real, real tight.

You hold it real tight. And today, it’s goose crossings. And where do you live?

Where are the geese right now in your neck of the woods? Are they gone? Are they coming back?

I’ve seen them recently.

I don’t know that they’re ever gone. Yeah. I can’t think of a time when I’ve been like, you know what I haven’t seen for a while?

Geese.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only thing that ever makes geese sound great is the Mary Oliver poem, Wild Geese. That’s the only poetic version of a goose I’ve ever interacted with.

I’m like, oh, yeah, wild geese, yeah, over and over announcing your place in the order of things. And yet, you know, they’re best viewed from a distance if they’re flying overhead.

But she may have been onto something here.

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, now that you say it, and maybe this is just climate change, which is not a road we want to go down right now because we’re trying to hold on to the hope-adjacent feelings right now.

We don’t want-

Hope-ish.

Hope-ish, hope-ish. Yeah, when I lived in Minnesota, I felt like there was never a season, migrating, I’m good here, I’m staying.

I’m gonna raise my family here.

Yeah, I’m putting down roots.

I got a good rate on my mortgage. Like I just, the people don’t run over me. Maybe there’s other places where they do, but I seem very safe here.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you were gonna tell me where you are. Where are you?

I’m in Richmond, Virginia.

Richmond, Virginia.

I’ve heard really good things about Richmond, Virginia. One of my friends just moved there. She’s loving it.

Well, delightful.

I’ve been here longer than anywhere in my life. And it’s fine.

Yeah, it’s fine. Hey, look, it’s fine. It’s fine.

It’s fine. Fine is good.

It’s fine.

Geese, TBD, but not running over a goose. That is pretty cool. That’s pretty okay.

And what I will say about this is that when this happens, I only do it safely.

So if I’m actively driving, I do it. But as I’ve mentioned, many times you have the opportunity to stop because they aren’t moving very slowly. And so often I will take a picture of the geese in the road with the stopped vehicles.

And I have enough friends and children that know about this thing for me. And so they will sometimes get a picture with no words. That’s just a picture of geese in the road as a way of me saying, it’s going to be okay.

Yeah.

You’re like, look, they’re still here and we’re still not running them over.

We’re not running them over.

It’s the little things for today. It’s the little things. It’s the little things.

That was beautiful. Amber, thank you for letting me call you, not once, not twice, but three times.

Third time’s the charm.

Third time’s the charm.

And if you need me to send you a goose picture, please do. Just let me know.

Please do.

If you’re having a rough day.

Text me some goose pics now. I want you to go through your camera roll. I need some goose pics.

At least one.

I’ll see. I tend to delete them because they’re a little embarrassing if you’re like, why do you have goose pictures on your phone?

That’s such a good digital hygiene. If I die and my family goes through my foot, they’re going to make what the… They’re going to try to piece together who I am.

I’m unknowable for my camera roll. I can tell you that much. I am.

I would love if somebody looks through my camera roll and there was a high ratio of random goose pictures because if you happen to listen to this conversation.

Yes.

So if you find a phone, it’s unlocked, you go through it, there’s a lot of goose pics, it belongs to Amber, return that phone.

Please return to sender.

Oh, God. Thank you so much. I’m going to double triple check.

You’ve got to be mother f***ing kidding me. No, no, no. Okay, now it says it’s fine.

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Let’s get on with the show.

Hey, Nora, this is Elizabeth Gross.

Hi, sorry, the phone didn’t ring when you called, and so I just missed it. I just saw your voicemail, I got a voicemail notification. Anyways, tell me everything.

Okay, so the theme again is what’s something bright to look forward to, like a little bit of optimism.

Yeah, it’s like there’s, obviously, is everything gonna be okay?

No, a great many things will not be, but there is something small in our days, in our worlds, that reminds us like, you know, let’s, that’s the okay thing. So I want to hear what yours is.

Yeah, that is, and it’s hearing my children laughing. It’s the absolute chaos and hell of having two children under five years old.

But hearing them laughing, hearing them start to play with each other, I have a four-year-old who will be going on five. She was the COVID baby. There’s various trauma associated with that.

But her brother is one now, and he’s just starting to be able to, like, you know, interact and do cute kid-like things.

Yes, and make her laugh. And, like, I feel like that’s the age where you’re like, okay, now I’m seeing a person. It’s not a baby anymore.

Now I’m seeing a person come out. And the combination of, I don’t, do you ever feel like, you’re like, okay, I’m so overstimulated. They’re yelling at each other.

They’re both asking for something. And then they crack each other up. And you’re like, okay, like.

Yeah, right.

They’re kind of, they’re starting to get there. They’re not quite there yet. But I think when, you know, give it another year and get, like, full into the toddler mode and we’ll be there for sure.

You’re going to be there.

Our two youngest are four years apart and it’s funny because sometimes it’s, like, no time at all and sometimes it’s, like, such a big gap. But I do love, I love the sound of unselfconscious laughter.

Right, right. Yeah, and that’s the big one and that totally relates back to, you know, you can be in your darkest moment, but you hear a child laugh, you hear somebody say something positive, that’s, it really pulls you out of it.

I was reading your voicemail before I called you back, and you mentioned something about taking care of yourself as well.

Yeah, yeah. So I just started on the set-bound injections last week, and that’s something that I have had a whole lot of anxiety about starting, just related to different things.

But it’s also giving me a whole lot of hope because it honestly feels like the fountain of youth in a shot.

So when I’ve struggled my entire life with weight concerns, with health issues related to that, reading these forums where people are like, oh yeah, I took off under 100 pounds in 10 months, and my life is completely different and beautiful.

And it’s like, oh, okay. Yeah, I’ll try that out and see.

How long have you been doing it?

Just for over a week now.

And you already feel better?

I’m starting to see something. Yeah, I’m starting to feel better. And it’s, yeah, like the feeling of having high blood sugar is really, really crappy.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

And having that go away is kind of amazing.

So that’s been the big one.

How does it feel different in your body, even a weekend?

I would say I have like kind of a lighter feeling. I have more pride about existing. That’s the big one.

And just feeling more attuned to things. And I don’t have the guilt associated with food, and I don’t have the guilt associated with feeling all fluggish and crappy. So that’s a good one.

But it’s more of a health thing than anything else, because I don’t need to be glammed for anybody at the moment.

I’m not doing this to have this perfect influence or body, but I’m just trying to be there for my kids, and break three generations of deaths in my family that have happened in parents. So that’s the big one.

Yeah. That is the what a gift. What a gift.

Yeah, my grandmother died in her 50s of a heart attack when my dad was 14.

My dad died at 61 of a stroke and I’m not going to be the third one. So that’s the goal.

It’s also, I think it’s there’s something to also just like you said, like, oh, this pride in being alive. That’s such a powerful feeling.

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, I mean, it’s got its ups and downs.

There are side effects and there’s, you know, it did mess with me a little bit in terms of some of my mental health stuff in the beginning, but I think it’s a process and it’s something you have to just kind of deal with and grow into as well.

Yeah. Well, I’m excited for you. I’m excited for you to not die.

That’s pretty great. That’s pretty great. Okay.

So years ago, here’s your other fun sound.

But years ago, somebody told me, before my first weight loss attempt, I did the whole keto thing and I lost a bunch of weight on that, but it was kind of, I don’t know, it was annoying.

It doesn’t sound fun. Anytime I hear the word keto.

Right. It’s not fun.

It’s very deprive-y. Yeah.

I think I don’t know what it means, but I know I don’t want to know.

It’s not fun, but I did that whole thing, and this random woman that I knew from a different organization in my community, she came up to me and she said, I thought you were going to follow your father to the grave.

And here, I’m a 22-year-old kid at the time. Like, oh, cool. Thank you, I guess.

Okay.

We’re missing other words.

Well, what a conversation starter.

Thanks so much. Well, I’m not dead yet.

Thank you for knowing this. Not dead yet. 22 years old.

Wow.

Okay. Okay. Cool.

So you don’t have to eat keto. You don’t have to feel these huge blood sugar spikes. You have to.

I have a friend who started, I don’t know what product it is. I know there’s several different compounds or brands, but she said that for the first time in her entire life, like there’s not like ongoing food chatter in her head.

Yeah. And it’s, I mean, it’s not quite there yet because it’s still the lowest dose, but I can tell that it’s there in the background.

And when I’m, you know, able to like eat three meals and protein and stuff and not be sitting here with a bag of chocolates from Christmas, just like eating and eating, that’s the silence of the food noise. I think that’s where that has been.

Yeah.

So it’s cool.

Liz, thank you for calling me back and then answering the phone when I call back, playing a little phone tag with me.

Yeah.

Well, thank you.

You’re such a celebrity. I love it. It’s cool to hear your voice on this end.

It’s like, wow, I listened to the view on the radio.

Oh my gosh. Oh God.

Well, thank you, Liz. Have a good one.

Yeah.

You too. Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

Hi, this is Anne.

Hi, Anne, it’s Nora McInerny.

Hi, it’s so good to hear from you.

This is amazing.

Oh, I am so glad. I want you to tell me what makes you feel like it’s gonna be okay.

So I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and I’m a social worker in the NICU. So I see people on, I see people on their worst, some of their worst days, if not their worst days, and some of their best days.

And it’s a place of hope that’s very removed from kind of, it’s obviously impacted by politics and things like that, but it’s very removed. And it’s a lot of, like seeing the miracles of science and things like that.

And then to relate into that, I have my own NICU story because I was born at 26 and a half weeks, 30 years ago. So I’ve kind of been able to see how science has caught up and I’m just, I’m impressed by that constantly. So that’s kind of the present.

But then I also think about how kind of I think about my past. And I lost my two remaining grandparents within a year of each other. And my one grandfather was a physician.

And so I feel very connected to him doing the work I do. But then I kind of, I look at their lives. And for example, my grandfather lost his dad very young.

My other grandmother, her family struggled with like mental illness and things like that.

And I just see these two people that live these very, very long lives and kind of were able to adapt to changes in the world and kind of kind of roll with the punches.

So kind of that’s kind of that thinking of them and kind of honoring them has helped me in the day to day because it shows that humans are resilient and that things change in the world and that we adapt as much as we can and we do feel pain, we do

feel hurt, but we adapt and kind of you have to find the humor in things for sure. And that’s something I carry with me from both of them.

Yeah. I mean, it’s really incredible to think that a baby who is in the NICU 30 years ago is now a woman who walks into that space.

And like you said, you are meeting people on either the greatest day of their life or the hardest or one of the hardest days of their lives. And that’s really, that’s an incredible journey.

Yes, it is. And it’s amazing to see the kind of changes. And I’m, to be quite honest, I’m a person that does not like to be the center of attention.

I don’t like to kind of, I don’t like to self promote. So it makes me uncomfortable to think like, I kind of, do you know what I mean? Like I, that I can represent hope for people, but that’s what a lot of people have said.

But I feel super, I’m still grappling with that. And kind of where does that fit?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause I think it, cause it has to be so hard to see parents who don’t get the miracle, right?

Yeah, for sure.

And like, cause not everyone does. And you mentioned one of your grandparents that you lost was a physician.

Yeah.

And so you learned a lot from watching him move through the world. Tell me about the other grandparent.

So my other grandparent, she was, she was a single mom. And she, one time I counted the number of jobs she had, and it was about 10 because she had to just kind of adapt, constantly adapt. And she was constantly just making sure my dad was okay.

She’s very, very, just very all about my dad’s well-being. And so she worked a variety. She was a bus driver.

She worked in Congress. She just kind of did what had to be done. And that’s a very, it’s not always the easiest way to live, but I think it teaches you a lot of resilience.

So that’s-

Wow. What a cool lady. Sorry, you just dropped that she was a bus driver and worked in Congress.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

I think it’s such a good reminder too, that life is a wild ride.

Yeah, it is for sure.

You know, like you don’t think, you know, when you have a baby in the NICU or when you’re kind of in any kind of crisis, you really are living like minute to minute.

And it’s hard to imagine that you could look up in 30 years and that baby who’s hooked up to all of those cords and tubes is going to be walking into that same room ready to help.

Yes, yes. And I think there is something to be said when we choose work that is so personal.

Yeah.

It’s great. And it’s also, it feels very personal. Yeah.

So I see every family and I think of my family, like how would I want them to be treated? So that’s kind of a, that’s an honor to be quite honest, to be able to give care to people that I want my family to have. Yeah.

And Anne, I just have to say like that’s, you’re giving me an okay thing for today with this phone call too, because that is such a beautiful way to put it.

And it is, it really is an honor to be there for people’s, you know, moments and to be, you know, an unexpected source of okay for them in times where it isn’t okay. And it might not be okay.

And to choose to keep showing up in that space, knowing that not everything works out for everybody is really powerful. So thank you for doing that work. I can tell that that’s the kind of energy that I would want if I were in the NICU.

You know what I mean? And I had a baby in the NICU for a couple of days, and it’s such a scary, strange, scary thing, too. Especially for first-time parents.

I was like, can I hold him? Is that allowed? Is this my baby?

I’m not sure. It’s so scary. It’s so scary.

So thank you for doing that work, and thank you for sharing it with us.

Yeah, you’re welcome. Of course. Yeah.

Yeah.

All right. You have a good day, Anne. Thank you so much for everything.

Okay.

You too. All right.

Bye, Anne.

Bye.

That was beautiful. I love taking these calls. I love hearing what makes people feel like it’s going to be okay.

And I love, love, love people who show up to be the okay for somebody else that is such deeply important work. So if you are a social worker, thank you. Thank you.

If you are a person who is working in the NICU, thank you.

If you are a person whose work intersects with people’s, you know, worst days, which, you know, and I think anybody who’s ever worked in, you know, customer service can also tell you that, right?

You just don’t know and everybody is going through something. So thank you, Anne, for calling in and sharing that with us. Let’s get ready for our next call.

Hello.

Hi, it’s Nora McInerny. You have to tell me what’s going to be okay.

Tell me about it. Yeah, I’m like, wow, I picked a good one, didn’t I? Because holy moly, I don’t know.

Dude, I know.

Yeah.

I have been thinking about this, obviously, since I signed up for The Spot.

And my kiddo is the first thing that comes to mind just because I see so much hope in everything in him. But then I’m like, oh, is everything going to be okay for him? Not everything.

Yeah.

No.

I know. So I think what really sticks with me, I’ve been really into learning about death doers and reading a little Arthur’s book and just the inevitability of, which sounds so, oh, that’s not going to be okay.

But it’s like, no, that’s what makes it okay to be in the present, is the fact that we’re not going to be here forever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And as dark and as morbid as that is, it’s like, that’s the one thing I know for sure and makes me just appreciate the present.

And I was like, wow, I don’t know if that’s a good, it’s going to be okay, but we’re all going to die, so it’s going to be okay.

Yeah, though. Yeah. Because I think we, very few of us live with that presence and that awareness, even though we know, right?

Like we know, but we keep it in the back of our brain, and when you keep it in the front of your brain, it is such a reminder, like, okay, do I really care? Do I really care? And yes, we care about, we do care about big things.

We care about other people. That’s not what we’re saying. But am I going to get caught up in every horrible thought and anxiety that I have?

Exactly.

You know, probably not.

Like, when I can live with that awareness, and it’s kind of rare, right? But when I can keep my eye on that, I am less likely to spiral down. Right?

I don’t know. I think that makes sense.

Yeah, it’s like my husband has a hard time whenever I bring up death and stuff, he’s like, I don’t like to think about it.

And I’m like, it is a fine line because it’s obviously like you don’t want to live in that fear, but you also like holding on to that, like it’s inevitable.

So what you accept it, like it’s just an acceptance that you have to come to terms with, I feel like.

Yeah. And to me, it does not have to be like, it doesn’t have to be a scary thing.

Right.

How old is your kid?

He is six.

Six. Okay. Yeah.

I have an eight-year-old now, and does your kid ask a lot about death?

Oh yeah. And I’m sick a lot. And so he’s been around me in the hospital and my mom in the hospital, and he was in NICU when he was born.

And so he’s well-versed in the fact that people are fragile. Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah.

Yeah. And I was so afraid of death. Were you afraid of death when you were younger?

Yes.

And I honestly, so in my teens, actually, I was like, oh, I want to die young. I can’t, like, this place is awful, like whatever. And then as soon as he was here, I was like, oh my God, like, I don’t want to miss out on a single thing.

And then like that fear came flooding back. And it is scary.

Just the, I know he’s going to grieve if something were to happen to me, but it’s like, that just, again, makes me focus on the present and like telling him everything that I want to tell him and not holding on to little things. And yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I walk a similarly fine line with my kids.

I will say it is thrilling to me when they go through our house and say like, now when you die, I’m going to take this and Ian takes this. Like, I love that. I’m like, yes, thank you.

I love knowing what you guys want, right? I love knowing these little treasures in our house that really would not mean anything to another person. I love that.

I love that they can speak about that without the panic. And I don’t think that embracing the finite nature of life has to be nihilistic or has to be frightening.

I do think that it can be incredibly comforting and this is surprising phone call, but I’m on board with you.

Oh, that makes me. I was like, I hope this isn’t too dark.

No.

Only thing that’s been bringing me peace, which sounds so weird.

Yeah.

But he’s actually been talking more about like, oh, well, when you die, when I’m, I think at first he said 20. I was like, I hope I don’t die before 20. But if that were to happen, he told my husband.

But 20 feels so old when you’re six.

He’s like, yeah, that’ll be a good age.

I know. That’s what, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

And I’m like, okay.

Oh, God.

Who knew?

It was like, what do you know?

Is this like a prophecy? Don’t say that, child.

Seriously, that’s exactly what I’ve been.

I’ve been like, oh man, he knows more than I do. I can tell.

He’s like, I’ve been thinking a lot about your impending death in 14 years. TikTok mother.

And my husband’s just like shivering in the corner like, oh my gosh, please stop talking about it.

I don’t want to think about it. I don’t want to talk about it. And I do.

I don’t know. I find comfort in that too. I really do.

It’s like.

Yeah.

And I think doing that work to have acceptance of that before it’s too late, right, before it’s too urgent, that will help your son, that will help your family. Like you are doing the future work right now.

Right. Yeah, I really, it’s different than how I was raised. Like we just, you don’t talk about it kind of thing because it brings up bad feelings, I guess, for some people.

But as I’ve gotten older and I’ve experienced like bringing them unexpected deaths around people and whatnot, it’s something that, yeah, it’s the one thing we’re all guaranteed. So why wouldn’t we talk about it and embrace it almost?

Yeah, no, I think so too. Do you think about your like funeral at all?

I do. Not as much. Like I’ve wrestled with that actually because I’m like, well, I kind of want like it’s not for me.

I mean, it is, but it’s also like, I think more of like, if I were to get sick and it be like a long process and not like an unexpected thing, then I think more about how I would want that to go than I do the actual funeral planning part.

But I feel like that is something that I’m feeling like I should probably start to put into place. Like, hey, if this were to ever happen, maybe this would take a lot off of you guys to have to figure out.

Yeah. What do you think happens after we die?

Oh, man. This is another one that I wrestle with. Well, I think that we are definitely, like a friend of mine passed away when he was going to be about to be 23.

And I know that I still feel him around. There are things that I’m like, oh, and even my kid, he’s been like, oh, do I do that thing? Does it remind you of Eric?

And I’m like, whoa, why would you say that? And I’m like, okay.

I think that whether or not there’s a heaven, I don’t know, but I think that we’re definitely, we get to still be around and be witness to the people that we love and they get to feel us still. Or at least that’s what brings me peace.

Oh, I love that. Yeah, I love that your son even feels this connection with somebody who he never met. I think that’s really powerful.

I do think that that kind of speaks to the infinite nature. There is something in us that is infinite and unknowable and knowable all at the same time. And that is proof of it, you know?

Right, yeah.

It’s like, otherwise, are we really just here and then gone? Like, I just, and that could be the case, but I don’t like to think about that.

But I’d rather think about, like, as long as there are people, kind of like a Coco type, you know, a Dia de los Muertos thing, like, where as long as we’re remembered, we’re still here kind of thing.

So I think that’s such a great, that’s such a great movie. It’s a great kids movie.

It really is. Yes. And it’s so powerful for adults, too.

Oh, yeah.

I love having a good cry to Coco.

It’s a good cry movie.

It’s good. It does normalize it. Like it’s so important to have, you know, like ritual around like grief and loss, too, so that it’s not so scary.

I think the scary thing is just thinking like, oh, this is it, and then it’s over, and you missed it. You know, like you just get this, you know, one shot, and then there’s nothing else. And in that sense, to me, that was always like a scary thought.

And I do, similarly to you, I do feel like there’s just something that sticks around. Like I do feel like we stick, like that connection is never really severed, and then that does feel like it’s going to be okay. It really does.

So thank you. This was such a lovely call.

Yeah, I appreciate you calling and giving us all the space to talk to you about things like this, because your podcast has really helped get through some rough times.

Well, I couldn’t do without you, so thank you so much, and you may now drive your car.

Thank you.

I’m going to therapy, so there we go. It’s going to be okay.

Oh my God.

Perfect. Wow. Okay.

Yeah. Don’t be late.

Yes.

Don’t be late. You can get extra minutes. Okay.

Bye.

Exactly. All right. Bye.

Your call has been forwarded to voicemail.

The person you’re trying to reach is not available.

At the tone… I’m trying to call people to ask them what makes them feel like it’s going to be okay. Every single person in my life is sending me to voicemail.

Why doesn’t anyone want to talk to me?

Oh, I wasn’t here first.

Two people, you know, Tuesdays, I record the podcast, I’m recording, like, the prompt this week was, what makes you feel like it’s going to be okay.

Yep.

And then the person was supposed to take this time slot. I like called and she was like, actually, I’m not okay right now, I’m at the hospital. I was like, okay, bye.

So, I’m literally, you’re a Hail Mary, you’ve gotta tell me something that makes you feel like it’s going to be okay.

On recording?

Yeah, yeah, you’re being recorded right now. It’s only a one-party consent state, but I will tell you, I’ll tell you right now. I’ll tell you right now, I’ve been recording every part of this phone call.

So thank God we didn’t say anything about it.

Brittany, are you recording this? Are you recording? Let’s see, what makes me feel like it’s going to be okay?

It’s a great question. Well, let me think, not much, but.

It’s bleak out here. We gotta like dig deep.

Okay.

I feel like what makes me feel like it’s going to be okay is even in even like how bleak it is, even in how bad it is, when someone, you know, sends you, every time you like get a meme or like a TikTok from someone that like makes you think like, oh

my God, yes. Like, I’m glad this person sent it to me. And it’s this shared thing of like, we are both exist on this earth together, and we both find this thing funny or true. And you’re like, okay, I’m not alone.

Yes.

Like, I think this is like a really lonely time.

And I think we’re like, I don’t know, like, you know, I’m like, I’d like to experience something precedented for one. But I think the thing that I love the most is that like even in, even when you’re like feeling alone, you’re not alone.

And every time you like connect with somebody, whether it’s over something like super funny or like something not funny, but even if it’s something that you’re both like, holy shit, what the fuck about, it’s still this shared experience that’s like,

Yeah.

That’s like the thing.

It’s like there still can be like humor and connection. Like when things are really bad, you’re really never like alone.

Yeah. Yeah. Even when you feel like you are.

And they’re still making America’s funniest home videos.

Are they?

They are. They’re calling it AFV. The fact that they’re still doing that when we have TikTok, is that is-

Did they just pull them from TikTok?

I think people are still sending them in.

I have to say they’re pulling some from TikTok, but I think people are still sending them in. And I think that is a testament to human resilience. The fact that they’re like, you could go scroll and take a risk with the algorithm.

Well, we’re going to carry this and put this on TV for you.

And we’re going to have the laughter of a live studio audience.

Because when you hear someone else crack up, it does kind of, it can be contagious. It can be contagious. I feel that way.

When you send me something and you say, watch this now, I know I’m going to lol. I’m going to lol.

And that’s why I say watch this now. There are some things I’ll send and I don’t preface it. It’s like, you can watch it or you can not watch it.

But if I need you to watch it, I make you watch it.

Yeah, and that’s like this connection through time and space for us to be like, we’re both loling at the same time, at the same place. Where are you right now?

Exactly. I’m walking Lottie outside.

Oh, is it cold?

She and a dog are in a little stand. It’s not that cold out. It’s not that cold out.

Lottie makes me feel, I have a good one. Lottie makes me feel like it’s going to be okay too, because every day I have to get up and, my whole entire, I’m her entire world.

Yeah.

Like I’m this dog’s entire world. And so for me, I’m like, well, like if my whole life is falling apart, the least I can do is maintain some consistency for this animal.

Okay, people say that golden doodles are really smart, but they’ve never played hide and seek with one. And that’s when you realize.

That’s so true. Lottie, you are so smart.

She’s very smart. She has a, your dog has a sense of humor. And not every dog does.

Sometimes you meet a dog and you’re like, this dog does not love.

Doesn’t like comedy.

This dog is not funny. I’ve met a few unfunny dogs.

Yeah, she is. Lottie is really funny. I think she gets her sense of humor from me.

Right, Lottie?

I think she does.

Yeah.

I think she does. Well, you’re always my okay thing. And thank you for answering the phone.

I can’t say the same thing for my husband or my daughter. So my mom answered just to tell me.

My mom answered just to say, I’m with Mary, she’s writing a letter because you know my mom’s having all the, you know the drama that’s happening with her building. So she’s got, she’s got a lawyer, she’s lawyered up. Okay.

Isn’t she trying to move?

I think so, who knows?

It’s a saga.

She is.

And I can’t, it’s a saga, and now my mom’s lawyered up. So we can’t speak about it. Okay.

Oh, wow.

There’s like a gag order on Madam.

She was like, I have to call you back. We’re writing a strongly worded letter. So I would, I don’t want to get a strongly worded letter from anyone.

No, no one does.

Especially not, not Madam.

No, no, no, no, I do not want a strongly, and her friend Mary, I do not want, I don’t want to be on the receiving end of a letter like that.

Here’s what 70 year old women have time for, strongly worded letters.

They’ve got the time and they will write that letter.

They will write that letter and you will believe them.

You will believe them. You will read this letter. Okay, I love you.

Thank you for answering.

I love you too. We’ll talk soon.

Okay, bye.

Bye.

Okay, so that’s us making It’s Going To Be Okay. Obviously, not everything is going to be okay. In fact, most things won’t be.

But I welcome all of you to share an okay thing with me, to call, text, anytime, 612-568-4441. It’s Going To Be Okay used to be a daily show.

We are not making it as a daily show anymore, but I do want to still take the time to find and share the okay things in our world, no matter how small, no matter how silly, they’re all sincerely okay.

So call me, share them when you have them, and maybe they’ll end up in an episode. I’m Nora McInerny, this was Thanks For Asking. It is going to be okay, but what is the it?

The it is different. It’s different for all of us, it’s different every day. Sometimes it’s geese, sometimes it’s death.

Funny enough?

Is it funny enough?

I don’t know if that’s funny enough. I feel like it’s funny enough. This is an independent podcast.

We exist because of you, our viewers, our listeners. This episode was produced by Marcel Malekibu. Our theme music is by Secret Audio, and we are a production of Feelings & Co where you can get most of your feelings.

This episode was made possible by our supporting producers. Supporting producers are the people who support us at the highest level over on our Substack. That’s noraborialis.substack.com.

That’s where you can get full podcast episodes, our entire back catalog, and more, so much more. All of my work is over there.

And our supporting producers are Boo, boo, boo, Beth Derry, Sarah Garifo, Jennifer McDagle, Sarah David, Mary Beth Berry, Joy Pollock, Crystal, Kaylee Sakai, Veal Bossy, Lizzie DeVries, Amy Gabrielle, Katie, Rachel Walton, David Bingley, Lisa Piven,

Celia Doucet, Michelle Toms, Val, Nicole Petey, Renee Kepke, Melody Swinford, oh boy, that jumped, Jennifer Pavelka, Diane C., Kate Lyon, Stacey Wilson, Larry Lefferts, Car Pan, Joe Theodosopoulos, Caroline Moss, Elise Lunen, Anna Brzezinski, Amanda,

Stacey DeMoro, Jess Blackwell, Abby Arauz, Aroos, I still don’t know how to say it, I’m sorry I’m butchering, it’s a beautiful name, Crystal Mann, Bonnie Robinson, Lauren Hanna, Shannon Dominguez-Stevens, Kathy Hamm, Erin John, or Jan, John, I don’t

know, Penny Pesta, Inga, Madeline McGrain, Christina, Emily Ferriso, Elizabeth Berkley, Kiara, Monica, Kaylee, Faye Barons, Jessica Reed, Kate Bayerjohn, Courtney McCown, Jeremy Essen, Kim F., Lindsay Lund, Jessica LaTexler, Alexis Lane, Stephanie

Johnson, Robin Roulard, Jackie Ryder, Jill MacDonald, Beth Lippem, Ilya Feliz, Milian, Dave Gilmour, Laura Savoy. Okay, I guess we’re having that sound right now. Chelsea Siernik, Jen Grimlin, Micah Anne H. That’s it. Those are all of them.

Thank you so much for being here, and we’ll see you soon. I don’t know what’s happening outside the door.