Her Parents Skipped Her Wedding(Estrangement)

Estrangement is one of those hot button topic that everyone has an opinion about, and here’s mine: you have one job as a parent1, and that’s to love your children. To show up for them. To support them. To not ditch out on their wedding LIKE A TOTAL WEIRDO.

Are things more complicated than that? Sure, people are complicated. But on this show I let you call in and talk about your life and your feelings and, most importantly:

I will never claim to be an unbiased host, because I am deeply biased person and if we are on the phone, chances are that I am on your side!

Big thanks to Chelsey for being brave enough to move through this world without the people who brought her into it, and to share her story with all of us.

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.

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Um, how are you? Most of us say fine or good, but obviously, it’s not always fine, and sometimes it’s not even that good. This is a podcast that gives people the space to be honest about how they really feel.

It’s a place to talk about life, the good, the bad, the awkward, the complicated. I’m Nora McInerny and this is Thanks For Asking. I’m Nora McInerny, welcome to Thanks For Asking.

This is the call-in show about What Matters to You. Today we have one caller. We are talking to one person today, and we are going deep.

Here we go. Okay, so we actually did, this is almost like a little bit of a cheat because yesterday we had a great conversation. And then at the end of the conversation, I realized two things.

One, I was like to pick up my child from school, and two, I had not pressed record. And I wish that I could say that was a first time thing. But the truth is, I do it once every two years.

And so I was due for the old oops, forgot to record, and you were the lucky winner.

That’s that’s okay. I’m pretty easygoing. So if it’s going to happen to anybody, it’s fine.

It’s also after I do reschedule our first conversation because, and this is gross, but I’m going to tell everybody because I think that we’re in a safe place.

I dropped my phone so regularly that my phone is called Nora’s Last iPhone because I can’t have another one. Like if I break this one, it’s done. I just don’t have a phone anymore.

That’s it. And I dropped my phone in such a way that the corner hit my toe. And literally smashed my big toenail.

Oh my gosh.

To smithereens.

It’s so gross. It hurts so bad. And I tried to go to the doctor and then they canceled on me.

So if they cancel on me tomorrow, I don’t know what I’m going to do. I’m going to go there in protest and I’ll sit there with my itchy toe out being like, I’m demanding.

Please help me.

I’m demanding help. Even though our oldest, I was like, oh, I lost so many toenails playing soccer. I could take it off for you.

I was like, absolutely not. That is a level of repulsive behavior. Like, yes, I picked your zits when you were in middle school, but that’s my right as a mother and a woman.

You can’t take my toenail off.

No, that is, that’s too far. That’s too far.

No, no, we’re not doing that. We’re not doing that. Anyways, yesterday, we talked about, we talked about a lot, but we talked about, we talked about some family stuff.

Just a little bit.

We talked about a little bit of family stuff.

It was actually kind of wild because I had two other conversations that like hit on different like that all seemed like it was just kind of like a like a variation on a theme too.

Because yesterday, one of the first things you said is like, Oh, like I’m doing this. I’m like raising kids, but I don’t have my family. And like, that’s a big loss to to like not have your own family like around and present.

Yeah, yeah, like no sounding bored or yeah, or anything like that, right?

Like I have my in-laws, but it’s still different.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I think no matter what, even if your family isn’t what you want them to be, like I think it is still I think we are programmed no matter what to like crave our parents, whether or not they were like ever good for us or good to us or like a

good force in our lives. That’s kind of like the tragedy of life, you know, is that parents can just become parents, you know?

Yes.

And kids just sort of like exist and are brought into a world by whoever brings them into the world, like without any control over the situation.

Yeah, no choice. Yeah.

As much as people say like that, oh, like, you know, the love that you have for a child is unconditional. I actually think like the love a child has for their parent is unconditional.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I don’t think it. Yeah, because I feel like parents set up so many expectations, right, for their kids.

And kids, I mean, all they want is you.

Yeah.

You know, just just. And you don’t even have to do anything. Like, I remember I asked my daughter, like, well, what was your favorite thing that we did today?

And we went out and done, did a bunch of stuff. And she’s like, when we did crafts together, like just some like little thing that we did for like 10 minutes. Nothing, nothing crazy.

I’m like, oh, that’s it, huh? Like that’s all it takes, right? Like they have such a low bar.

Yeah, the way that my kids will be, well, also the way their allegiance is shift so quickly, but the number of times I’ve been told like, you’re the best mom in the world.

And I’m like, I’m actually not great, but thank you for your love.

But they mean it.

Thank you for the appreciation. They do mean it. And I’m like, oh, god, you have no idea.

You need to raise your standards. Like, oh, god. I think estrangement is very, like, zeitgeist-y right now, I think.

Maybe just like my algorithms are showing me like a lot of estrangement stuff. Do you feel that way?

It is, yes. And I, like, this happened when we got married. So it’s been eight years.

And I didn’t know anybody that was estrange from their family before. But now it’s definitely more common. I think it’s like people think, feel more allowed to do it.

And I don’t know. It’s strange.

Yeah. And before you made that decision, what was your like a view of like estrangement, right? Like, did it seem like something that was scary?

Did it seem like something that was like not allowed? Did it seem like something that would be, you know, judged? Were you judging people?

I don’t think I was very judgy.

Like I had I had some friends that had. Strange relationships with their family already, that they were more leaning towards, wanting to stop talking to them. And so I think I was pretty understanding of it.

I never saw myself doing it, like doing it my own self to my family, though, for some reason. I think it just seemed very final. Very final and, you know, just making it more real, I guess.

Tell me the story of your wedding again.

Leading up to it, they didn’t really want to come to begin with, mostly because it was a far away wedding.

Like it was five hours from where we live. And so they showed up and I was like, oh, they came. That’s good, I guess.

And the morning of when I was getting…

But why would that surprise you? Like that’s so, like there’s something about your relationship where it’s like, it should not be a shock, you know?

No, I mean, they should have just been able to come to my wedding, right? And I don’t know, I guess they just didn’t show up in life at all for me. You know, like they never came to my sports stuff that I did.

They never went to anything school related. Like, they just didn’t show up ever. And so, them coming to my wedding, I was like, well, that’s strange.

They just never physically show up to anything. And so…

Did they RSVP?

Verbally, maybe? Yeah. Yeah, I don’t think they used the RSVP on my booking.

Oh, and Chelsey, this is so…

The way that you’re explaining this, like, this is so norma… Oh, good, my parents are here.

Like, was your husband’s family like…

What do you mean?

Babe… You know, for… Honestly, it was probably for a couple of years, they gave me this look of, like, you know, just sadness.

Yeah. Like, feeling bad for me, like the pity. And I hated that.

I hated that. I hate the pity for it because… I mean, trauma, I guess.

And I don’t think I deserve it, right? Like, I’m coming… I’ve come out of that, but I didn’t think I deserved anyone’s sadness about it, I suppose.

You’re right, because I’m a bad girl and I…

Like, it’s so sad.

I mean, at the time, at the time, it felt like my fault, right? Like, it felt… Well, and that’s what the messages after the wedding, that’s what I was receiving from my parents, saying it was my fault and stuff like that.

Okay, so tell me what happens at the wedding.

They show up and you’re like, oh good, my parents are here. And everyone’s like, mm-hmm, that’s a thing that should surprise you. Normal bride reaction.

Oh good, my parents are here.

Right, right. And they were there for like the party the night before. Like, what is that called?

The…

Oh, rehearsal dinner.

Rehearsal dinner.

Yeah.

They were there for their rehearsal dinner. And so the next day, like we’re getting up in the morning early to get like hair and makeup, all that stuff. And we’re in the rooms and my mom came in, just…

She had been ugly crying the whole night, like her face. I swore it grew like to the size of two faces because it was so puffy. It was so puffy, Nora.

She definitely had been crying. It was brutal. And she just said like, why are you doing this to me?

Like, why are you doing this? And I remember being like, what the fuck is happening?

Yeah, what was this? Getting married? Were you not supposed to?

I guess.

I guess. I don’t know.

Yeah, that’s the thing.

I also have never gotten like a real explanation for anything. Not that anything is going to rationalize it, right? And so she left.

And from her hotel and the venue, it was like a 15-minute drive. So it was about an hour walk. And you had to hike across like this massive bridge because it was technically out of town in like in BC and Canada.

And so then like they went back. And then, of course, my dad didn’t come. And so and they were all looking for her, like my grandparents.

Yeah, a woman disappeared.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It’s like a missing person’s.

Completely.

Yeah.

And then like my husband, Matt, his his groomsmen were driving around, trying to find her and could not find her. And then eventually, like my grandpa comes in, it’s like, well, your parents aren’t coming.

Like, I’ll have to walk you down the aisle and stuff like that. And so it was just this. Bizarre.

Feeling, you know, like I And were your grandparents like, yeah, sorry, your mom’s.

Bananas, or were they just like, well, you know, they didn’t have or just like they didn’t explain it.

They didn’t they didn’t know. They didn’t rationalize it. They just said, yeah, they’re too upset.

Like they’re not coming. Yeah. And so it was the super.

This is your wedding day.

Are you an only child?

No, no, I have a I have a younger brother and he came with his like long time girlfriend. So they were there and everything.

This is your parents’ only daughter’s wedding.

Yeah.

Chelsey, I hate this so much. And I probably should have asked you at the beginning, when you told the story, do you want to just vent about it?

Do you want advice or do you want me to take up on your side and hold this grudge for the rest of my life? Because I’ve already made my decision, so.

I, the thing about me is I’m an open book. I’m comfortable with anything of that.

My hands are sweating like, yeah.

I know it’s such a it’s such a strange like it’d be one thing if they just didn’t show up, right? But like the theatrical miss of the whole thing.

Yeah.

And also let me I’m going to make you guess what you did wrong, which is nothing like sorry, like, I mean, unless I’m missing something and like you’re, you know, a husband was actually like your mom’s first husband or something, you know, like,

yeah, yeah. Is is there like some crazy twist, some Jerry Springer twist I don’t know about or no, no, there’s not to show up to the wedding. And also it just says a lot about like the relationship that you were like, oh, they showed up.

Like, yeah, that’s so nuts. Like you have a daughter, you have a son. Can you imagine a world where your daughter invites you to her wedding and you leave it?

And never, never.

And I, you know, I know eventually those questions will come to, you know, like, well, where’s, like, where are your parents, right? Like, because she has one set of direct grandparents. She doesn’t have another set, right?

So has she ever asked?

Not yet.

Not yet. She, like, I have said a couple of times, like, yeah, like if I explain something that happens and I’m like, yeah, I didn’t have really great parents. So this is kind of new for me, right?

Like that kind of thing. And so she knows a little bit that they were, you know, fucked up basically. And so.

But that’s basically it. Yeah. Because she just she just turned five, so I don’t.

Yeah, I don’t. Yeah, I’m totally fine to tell her eventually. Right.

To explain it better. But yeah, I don’t think she’ll grasp it.

No, because it’s hard to grasp. I also think it’s like kind of scary. It’s a scary thought, too.

You know, to think like.

That something like that could happen, you know, especially if you are like in a really like loving home, which I’m sure your kids are like just the idea that someone you love so much, your mom, someone was once not nice to your mom.

That would like really upset me as a kid. Like, yeah, my youngest is fine with the fact that I was married and my husband died. He’s a little confused and he’s eight, right?

So he’s like a little confused as to like the timelines of stuff. Yeah. And, you know, it’s not important, like, you know, like who’s blood related to who.

And we don’t really talk about things that way. But like when he found out Matthew was married before, he was like, what?

You didn’t just choose my mom.

He was like, how? When? What’s her name?

Like, just like, so.

Oh, my gosh.

So upset.

I mean, that’s the thing. Like, kids, they think about everything in relation to them, right? And so, yeah, I’m not surprised.

Isn’t that funny?

I was like, yeah, thanks, buddy. I was like, I know it’s so inappropriate.

It’s fine. You wouldn’t have had any of your siblings.

I know, I know.

But he also does not, that does not like, for him either. At all.

He’s just like, it’s like, quit all the family.

He’s like, he’s like, yeah, I would. Yeah, I would. I was like, okay, well then, okay, then fine.

Yeah.

Like even, like even though this is like the healthy choice for you and for your family, cause I also think, you know, somebody who would treat you that way on like one of the most, the most important day of your life that thus far, right?

Your wedding day, like someone who would treat you that way on your wedding day is not really like a safe person for you emotionally. Like there was no, was there a conversation after that? Was there any explanation?

No, I mean, it was mostly just blaming me, but not even saying why they were blaming me, just like that it’s my fault basically.

And so looking at that, I thought, I mean, I don’t actually think it’s my fault. So I’m just gonna, obviously, it’s not an easy choice to make, right? But I just made the decision, you know, I couldn’t do that.

How did you do it?

Did you do it slowly or did you do it like declaratively?

I think it was a little bit slowly at the beginning, only because they did try to get in touch with me a little bit after the wedding, and I just couldn’t.

And then I had many, many voicemails and emails from my mom in the middle of the night, which are barely coherent. And then I just had replied back and blocked them, basically, and said, like, this, I can’t.

Like nothing rude, I was just being firm, like, that’s it, I can’t.

But I think what I was gonna say is, I think that choice too, is like a protective choice for your children too.

Because if somebody can treat you that way, on that kind of day, it just does not feel like the kind of person that you want involved in like a little kid’s life, you know?

No, never, never. Yeah, I couldn’t, I couldn’t. Yeah, I mean, sure, it would be nice to have more support, but like what kind of support would I even get, right?

Like I think they would just be a nuisance, and it would just negatively impact my kids’ lives. And to be honest, I’m already…

What kind, like, yeah. It’s like if you’re gonna walk out of my wedding and literally hike back, cause a huge disturbance in my wedding. Like, what kind of support…

How can I trust you with, like, a small kid? How can I trust you with, you know, the vulnerability, too, of becoming a parent?

Especially like in those first, like, months, in those first years, like where you’re just, like, sure that you’re doing everything wrong and everything is so overwhelming, and you’re doing everything for the first time.

Like, that is such a vulnerable time. It’s like you don’t want just anybody’s help, you know?

No, no, definitely. And I remember, like, once my daughter came, I thought about, like, in moments, I was like, I can’t even fathom asking my family for help right now.

You know, it was such a weird, weird feeling to have knowing, like, they are completely unsafe. Yeah, in this respect.

So do they have they reached out at all? Like, since you’ve had kids or like as years have gone by at all?

A little bit, like through my grandparents and my grandparents being like, well, you know, yeah, they did something messed up, but why don’t you forgive them? Like, they want to see your kids and stuff. And I’m like, no, I can’t.

Yeah.

Never, never.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, I just I basically banned them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like that.

Okay. Are your parents, how old are your parents?

Ah, they’re, uh, how old are they? That’s a great question. Like late 50s, early 60s kind of thing.

Oh, my God.

They’re so young.

Yeah, they had me. Yeah, because I’m turning 34 in January. And so, yeah, they had me when they were like 23, 24.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That’ll do it. Not to say all young parents, right? Like I’m married to a person who’s a very, very young parent.

And like he said his first thought, like when he held Ian for the first time was like, oh, this is who I am now. Like I’m yours. Like, this is my job is like you.

Like, this is my focus for the rest of my life. Like you just said, it was like this huge shift. Like that moment.

I don’t think that happens for everyone. And like, no, no, like every child deserves a loving, safe parent.

And not every parent deserves a child, but like through the luck of the draw, you know, there’s no like sort of screening process is just like, well, it happened. Here you are, right? Like here you are.

Now you’re, now you’re a mom. And it’s one thing to be a mom. And I do think it’s another to be a mother.

Like I think those are very different things.

I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

How is that like, how is that experience with your family of origin affected the way that you parent?

I guess I pay more attention to what I say and do and definitely try to think more, right?

But there are times where I act emotionally, right? Like, and so that’s just when I apologize and that kind of stuff and try to repair basically any damage that I have done, right? And because there is going to be that.

And I mean, because of my family of origin, I can’t expect myself to be like this perfect mother, like PTA mom who’s all, you know, I just can’t, right? There’s going to be days where I’m cranky.

There’s going to be days where like, my mental health isn’t fantastic, right? Like, that is what it is. But I but I still hope that everything that I do with my kids and the way I speak to them is, you know, okay.

Yeah.

Well, I think that’s huge, though, Chelsey. It’s like, I, I apologize to my kids. I feel like constantly I am also not a perfect mom.

I don’t think our children need perfect parents. I think our children need human parents. Yeah.

And I think that they need to see that they can make mistakes and still be forgiven the way that you can make mistakes and still be forgiven. And you can apologize when you’re wrong. And that means they can apologize when they’re wrong.

And you can work through things.

And I think it’s important, too, for our kids to see like healthy relationships, too, and to see their parents in healthy relationships and not just like, you know, the their, you know, co-parenting relationships, but like the relationships all

around them, too. Like, kids are so absorbent and they’re like so attuned to energy that we don’t even, you know, notice after our conversation yesterday, I know our devices listen to us. I don’t care what any of these companies say.

I don’t care either.

They do fully.

They do. They do. They do.

And so yesterday I was on threads after we talked and I did not record the conversation and I saw something that was like, Oh, parents can sense like bad friends like for your kids, right? Like you’ll you’ll like see a dynamic with your kids.

You’ll be like, no, but kids can sense bad family.

Yes.

And there’s nothing that you can, you know, like there’s no amount of you know, gaslighting that that can overcome that.

And I think that’s true, like in my experience, too, like growing up, like I would know, like, you know, when you meet somebody or like you see a certain family dynamic, you’re like, that’s not right.

Like that’s not like there’s something inside of you that will like. Rebell at that feeling.

Yeah, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You’re saving your kids from that, Chelsey.

I think that’s really I’m trying. I’m trying. And I mean, I’m also I mean, I’m trying.

I’m trying to heal like the child and me that never got to be a kid. Right. And so when my kids are experiencing these things for the first time, like I am too almost.

And so I get to, yeah, you know, enjoy these things and actually like Christmas, like like a little bit.

Yeah.

You know, and not completely hate it. Right. And like these kinds of things.

And so and not be like.

Scared of what’s on the other side of the, you know, the door when you come downstairs in the morning or whatever, it’s like, yeah, that’s so magical. And like, you deserve Christmas magic, too. Or, you know, like a peaceful family and all that.

And I think that’s really lovely. Everything that you’re giving to your kids, you are also giving to like little Chelsea. Yeah.

It’s yeah, it’s kind of it’s surreal.

Yeah.

What is still hard about this situation for you, even after all these years?

I guess that I just don’t have really any family. To talk about like the little things that my kids do, or have them at kids birthday parties, like my daughter had her birthday, like a couple of weeks ago.

And so like not being able to enjoy that, and just, I don’t know, just talk to my own family. You know, I’ve had to refamulate and make my own family basically.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so that, I mean, I’m not upset about it or mad, but it does hurt sometimes, but I don’t get that.

I think it should, of course it hurts. But you don’t deserve that. That’s the thing too.

It’s like kids don’t deserve this, and like you are always going to be the kid in this situation.

And you know, again, our phone’s listening to us, and like the algorithm’s serving me, you know, parents in their 60s or 70s or late 50s who are like, my kid cut me off, and there was no warning and no reason, and it just doesn’t give me that.

And it’s like, I think that people forget that when you become a parent, like you are, like your child’s a person, like they’re a person, like you are creating or adopting a person, an actual human being with like their own thoughts and feelings and

experiences. And you are responsible for them. They are not responsible for you. And you’re almost 34.

You’re still the kid in this equation. You know what I mean? Like they owe you like nurturing still.

You know what I mean? It’s not like no matter. I don’t know.

I’m trying to imagine like something that would make you deserve that kind of treatment, and I can’t think of something like can you look at your kids and imagine like a world where you’re just like out of tune with so out of tune with their pain

Right.

Yeah. And you shouldn’t have to negotiate for love, right? Like you shouldn’t have to convince them in that kind of stuff.

And so I mean, that’s basically what I had to do. And I couldn’t do that anymore.

Like you mentioned, it was a surprise that your parents showed up to your wedding. What was your relationship with them like before that? How do you have characterized it to somebody?

Your in-laws are always giving you these sympathetic looks. When do you realize, oh, this is not how other families are, and this is not what I want?

I guess it took me a while to realize that it was a little bit fucked up. And even now saying that, it’s like, well, it wasn’t a little bit fucked up. It was a lot fucked up.

But like they were emotionally and physically abusive and just awful to me, just awful to me. And like there were there were suicide attempts in high school that I had and stuff. And I remember.

My mom said to me like she I told her what I did basically after I was 16, 17, I think. And she brought me like she didn’t believe me. She brought me more pills to take.

She’s like, you didn’t try hard enough basically. Yeah. And I think after that moment is when I knew like something, something’s wrong here.

Yeah.

This demented. Chelsea. Oh my God.

I’m so glad that you’re not at your daughter’s birthday party.

Yeah. Yeah.

I’m so glad. And also you didn’t deserve that. You deserved a like two parents who would hear that it’s your daughter’s birthday and call and say, do you want us to pick up a cake at the grocery store?

Or is there, should we get streamers? Or what does she want? Or, oh, it’s your mom-iversary.

Can we take the kids for a night and you and your husband can go do something? You deserve all that. And it is deeply unfair that you didn’t get it and you did not deserve that.

That’s horrible. Horrible. And I also understand why it would still be sad because you’re like wishing for them to be the parents that you deserve, not the parents that they are.

And I think no matter what, we are always kids and we’re always going to be sitting by the window waiting, you know?

And, you know, sometimes I even wish that they just weren’t as awful. Like, you know, like, they… There was always food and that kind of stuff, you know?

They always, like, took care of us, but…

Okay, that’s just your obligation. That’s the thing.

And that’s the thing. I didn’t even clue into that probably until, like, the last two years being like, well, that’s the bare minimum when you have kids. That’s the bare minimum.

That’s the bare minimum.

I’m sorry, if you want to tell me like, oh, you have a house and food, like, yeah, that was literally your job. And also, by the way, you need those things, too. That’s, like, literally meeting somebody’s, the baseline of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

But you can’t skip the other parts and then be like, and you’re self-actualized. Like, you need all of those building blocks. And, like, one is, like, physical and emotional, psychological safety, not just fucking peanut butter sandwiches.

No.

Yeah.

Like…

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sorry I interrupted you. It wasn’t that bad. Like, we had food.

Well, no, but that’s her job.

I know.

I know.

And I didn’t clue into that, even until, like, until a couple of years ago, because my therapist was just like, well, yeah, that’s the job.

Dirt. Yeah. Oh, as long as they fed you.

Yeah, that was fine. Yeah. As long as they fed you, I think it’s actually fine that when you had a suicide attempt, your mom brought you more pills.

Yeah, I think that’s, I mean, yeah, she took care of you.

Perfect. It’s fine. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, God, God.

Well, you’ll be glad to know I moved out shortly after that, though, so I left home.

Oh, my God, like as a little 16-year-old, as a little teenager.

I was, okay, it was not immediately after. It was like a couple of years. So I was probably like 18 when I left.

Okay, that is still, I’m sorry, that is still so young.

That is still a baby. I lived with my parents. I boomeranged several times.

Okay, well into my 20s, 30s. That’s okay. And that is okay.

And also, I think that’s like the sign of like safety, too. Like, oh, I have a place to go. I always want my kids to know, like they can stay as long as they want to.

Correct.

Yeah.

Come back whenever, whenever. That’s what I don’t know if your kids have started like, five’s a little young, but you never know because like when they start like thinking about like growing up, you know, yeah, yeah.

It’s like one of my kids is like, I’m never I won’t move out ever. And I’m like, OK, that’s fine. And one of my kids is like, I’m going to move out to go to college, but then I’m going to come back and I’m going to marry you.

Like, OK. Yeah.

My daughter says a little bit of that stuff, like when she was four, like three weeks ago, and she’s like, Mommy, I don’t want to be five. Like, I want to and can like, can we get married?

Yeah.

And like, I’m just going to I’m going to stick with you forever. I’m like, great. I’m fine with it.

I like you.

Great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Live with me forever. Honestly, that’s that’s fine. I don’t know.

I don’t know how this not too good. I just a total like I don’t know how any anyone’s going to be able to afford a place to live ever.

Oh, yeah. It’s not any better up here in Canada either.

But we’ve romanticized Canada. We really truly think that Canada is the answer to all of our problems.

It’s true. But I live in Alberta, which is the Texas of Canada.

Interesting.

Yes. So it’s very, very, very conservative and anti-rights to humans.

It’s so wild. It’s so wild. I saw something that was like maple mega.

And I was like, yeah, it’s it’d be mick, mick, mick, mick, mick. Just it can’t be.

It doesn’t work.

It can’t be maple mega. I just.

Oh, it just can’t be.

It just can’t be. It just can’t be. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I live in Arizona, which is the Texas of the West. OK, so.

OK, 1864 abortion ban. Great. OK.

We weren’t even a state. This was Mexico. This was a territory.

This was occupied land.

It’s true.

And but OK, OK, doke. Chelsea, you’re wonderful. I hope you know that.

I hope you know, like, that you broke a cycle for your kids and you’re giving your kids such a gift. I can just tell you’re such a good mom. I really can.

Thanks, Nora.

You really can.

I think you’re the best mom. And also you have Christmas houses behind you. You’re making so much Christmas magic.

I’m trying.

I’m trying. I made an advent calendar, like literally sewed an advent calendar, planned activities.

Oh, my God. Okay. Well, you have to also give yourself a little bit of Christmas magic too.

So that is my assignment for you is to like pick something that you really, really, really like to do and do that. Like when the kids are in bed or whatever, but I love, love, love watching bad Christmas movies and doing a puzzle.

And that’s what I’m doing tonight.

So yes, yes. I actually think I’m doing the same thing tonight.

Yes, I love putting together a puzzle. The way that I will just fully lock in to puzzle mode with like with a movie is just like white noise.

It like tickles every single part of my brain that I like, like only the good parts of my brain are activated. And it’s like the best.

And you’re just in the moment, not thinking about all of them.

In the moment. Okay, next time we talk, I want to talk about what it’s like to be a wedding photographer. And if you keep track of how many photos that you take, how many people stay married?

Cause I’m always really curious about like, what happens to all that?

You know, like there’s probably just, you know, landfills filled with like old albums from the eighties or nineties, but like someone still got like wedding photos from weddings that didn’t work out. And, you know, I’m not anti-divorce.

I think divorce can be a beautiful thing, but, yeah, I think it’s really like, I think it’s just such a fascinating thing to be like a witness to other people’s weddings. I sometimes officiate weddings, which is also like, right.

You do, you know, honestly, a lot less pressure than the photos.

Oh, yeah, yeah, a little bit.

Like, this is 15 minutes max, right? Um, uh, the photographer’s got to make it look good. Um, but yeah, that’s like fascinating to me.

It’s fascinating to me. But thank you for your patience.

I also find it ironic, too, like, considering our wedding.

Yes, that’s what I wanted to talk about. I was like, what? Were you already a wedding photographer before that?

Yes, yeah.

So with, like, yeah, my husband and I.

And have you seen, like, maybe we’ll just get into it now. What’s the, like, do you see weddings go wrong?

Oh, yeah. And you know, it’s always the parents. Like, one side of the parents, they’re just, like, completely unhinged.

We’ve only had, like, one or two brides that were a little bit off, but usually it’s the parents. Good God. That are completely nuts.

And, like, some of them just storm out and leave. We’ve actually had people, like, storm out and leave. Like, yeah.

Get a grip.

Get a grip. May I remember this when my kids get married? I’m like, get a grip.

Get a grip. It’s someone else’s wedding.

And I also think that the way people react to someone else’s wedding says more about them than it does about the bride and groom or the bride and bride, the bride, groom and groom, like whatever, like more about the person than it does about the

people who are getting married. You know, like if you’re upset about not being invited, look inside yourself.

You know, think about it, maybe for a little bit.

If you’re upset about something about the wedding, it’s like ask yourself, like, why do I think that I have the right to? To voice this opinion. Could I get a journal instead?

Yeah, instead of, you know, harassing family members.

Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely nuts. Absolutely nuts. Okay.

You’re wonderful. Thank you. I’m not late to get Ralph.

I know you might be looking at the clock and thinking, but he’s going to the library after school today because that is what the cool kids do. So he’s been asking to go to the library. And I said, go to the library, bud.

I’ll pick you up a little late. You’re going to get 40 minutes of time at the library. Good job, Ralph.

I know.

It’s like middle school is just so sweet.

It’s so sweet.

It’s so awkward. Oh, man.

Thanks For Asking is a group project in a lot of ways because we need your calls. We need you. So you can always call, always text, you can email.

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That’s Jeff Landreville and Max Bougrove over at Extra Sauce. And our theme music is by Joffrey Lamar Wilson, except for the theme music that you hear at the end of the show, which is by my young son, Q. He’s eight years old.

He made this theme song just for us and he hopes you love it. And I hope you love it too because you know what? I paid for it.

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So big thanks to Beth Derry, Sarah Garifo, Jennifer McDagle, Sarah David, Mary Beth Berry, Joy Pollock, Crystal, Kaylee Sakai, Veal Bossy, Lizzie DeVries, Amy Gabrielle, Katie Rachel Walton, David Binkley, Lisa Piven, Celia Doucet, Michelle Toms,

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