Embarrassing Stories

In this episode, we discuss the defining moments in our lives that forever branded us with shame.

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.

---

How are you? Most of us say fine or good, but obviously it’s not always fine, and sometimes it’s not even that good. This is a podcast that gives people the space to be honest about how they really feel.

It’s a place to talk about life, the good, the bad, the awkward, the complicated. I’m Nora McInerny and this is Thanks For Asking. There are certain situations, certain moments, that you remember forever.

And in my experience, these are not my most shining moments. These are not even necessarily my most traumatic moments. These are my most embarrassing moments.

The times where I said the exact wrong thing at the exact wrong moment. The stairs, I have fallen down, and I have fallen down many stairs, always in public. You will never see me falling downstairs alone because I wouldn’t do it alone.

I only fall down or upstairs if I have an audience.

When I was in high school, freshly licensed, driving myself and my friends to school, I was, I always have been a little bit of a stickler for certain rules, and one of those rules was the carpool lane.

Okay, I can go in the carpool lane because I am the true definition of a carpooler. I am 17 years old. I have picked up three other kids and my brother.

I’m taking us all to school. That is a carpool. Ahead of me, a van cuts in to the carpool lane.

There’s no adult head sticking over, you know, the front seat. It’s not a carpool. It’s not a carpool.

I give them a honk. I give them the finger.

Then I follow that car four miles up the freeway, off the freeway, onto the island in the Mississippi River where my high school was located, only to see that the driver of that van is my high school principal.

My high school principal who approaches me at lunch and says to me, I just want you to know that my daughter was in the car so it was technically a carpool. He was embarrassed. I was embarrassed.

I thought I was gonna get in trouble. I thought I was gonna get kicked out of school. He was embarrassed because he thought, I thought he was cheating in the carpool lane.

And guess what? I still think he was. I don’t know.

I don’t think that it should count if you’re driving an unlicensed driver around. That’s not necessarily like a carpool. If it’s your own child, that wouldn’t have been another car on the road or if it was someone else’s child, maybe.

How would we enforce this? I don’t know. The point is that was an embarrassing moment.

It was one of many in my life. And I have found, that’s what I’m saying, these embarrassing things out loud on a podcast, out loud to other people, makes them slightly less embarrassing. You can find the humor in it where maybe you couldn’t before.

I don’t know if I’m ready to laugh about falling down the stairs on my first day of college in like the most crowded building ever, I mean, in my tiny little college, not the most crowded building ever, the most crowded building in my tiny little

college. Just boom, down I went, right on my butt. Backpack prevented me from having a serious back injury. Thank God for that nerdy backpack that also I got made fun of.

I didn’t know we weren’t wearing backpacks anymore. I think they’re back. I think backpacks are back and they’re cool again, but I guess everybody is wearing shoulder bags at that time, and I did not know that.

Anyways, today’s calls are embarrassing stories. Today’s calls are people calling in. That’s how it works.

That’s how this show works. Now, you call in, we talk about whatever you want to talk about. But there was a theme to today’s calls.

And the theme was the embarrassing stories that we are still holding on to. So let’s get in to our first call. Hello?

Hi, is this Sarah?

This is Sarah, how’s it going, Nora?

Hi, hi.

How are you feeling?

I saw you weren’t feeling well. I’m not quite 100%. I still have this, now I have hiccups, because I just chugged water, because I was like, I don’t feel good.

Maybe I should drink water. They don’t mean drink all the water at once. That’s not what they mean.

They mean drink water all day. That’s what they mean. So I am better, but if you make me laugh, I will wheeze and it’s going to gross you out.

Okay, I’ll try that too.

Like that, okay?

Okay, thank you.

I was actually going to message you and tell you you didn’t have to call, but I’m like, no, she’s a grown up. She can decide that for herself.

Oh, I will. I will make a phone call. This is like the only…

It truly is like this is such a highlight for my weeks now because I love talking on the phone.

Yeah, that’s awesome.

I was actually listening to the loneliness one and thinking like you would be really good either at a customer service complaint line or a crisis line because you get people on the phone and then they’d forget why they called you in the first place.

Yeah, they’d be like, oh no.

Because you have this amazing talk. They’d either forget the complaint or they forget why they’re feeling really bad. And they’d be like, oh cool.

And off they go.

That’s actually, I kind of like that as a career pivot because, and I really do, I love to solve a problem. And I do think that, you know, I can handle people who are super angry. And for that, I thank my father.

You know, really gave me a skill set. He didn’t know that he was preparing me for an angry world, but boy did he, boy did he. Oh man.

Okay. So Sarah, what are, tell me this story. Tell me this story.

I’m on the edge of my seat.

So I kind of have a potpourri of embarrassing cause I was worried I wouldn’t have enough to fill a call. So, but so I’ve lived in many different places.

So I have things like living in France, a guy I liked, and you have to kiss on both cheeks in France, but I never knew which cheek to start with.

That’s, yeah.

So I go, it was really hard. And so I’d go in for one and be like, no, and then go for the other and before you know it, you’re just like bobbing back and forth. Or you’re kissing on the mouth.

I kissed on the mouth an adult man.

I was nannying in Italy after I graduated.

Oh my gosh.

And I was so embarrassed and also just utterly, I was very self-conscious of the fact that I was like 22 and a nanny. You know, like that, it’s got a vibe to it a little bit.

I was like, I did not mean to kiss your husband, but I’m a prude and all these Italians were like, you could kiss my husband. I don’t care. And I was like, no, I’m an American Catholic.

That’s not something I’m doing. Okay. And that haunts me.

Just grazing lips with a 50-year-old man when you’re 22. It was too much. It was too much.

Yeah.

Well, that kiss is a little bit much. And then I had one when I was, I’ve got twin boys and I’d arrange the playdate with one of their friends and he had this, their parents were divorced and so I was dealing with the dad.

And one day I found this really cute emoji I was going to send to my mom and I sent it by mistake to him. And he texted me back and he’s like, uh-huh, he didn’t really know what it was for. And the emoji was, what’s cooking good looking?

Like, oh my gosh.

And I was like, I’m so sorry, that was for my mother.

And like, why was I even sending that to my mother? But, and it was like a emoji of, or you know, like a GIF of, it was like a frying pan with eggs in it, with a thing that said, what’s cooking good looking?

Oh no!

Yeah, so I’m like, sorry. And then I had to keep seeing him at kindergarten pick up after that. That wasn’t bad.

No!

Yeah.

No.

Did you know when you sent it, that you had sent it to him, or was it just a part of his reply?

It was once he got back to me.

Good. Good. Yep.

Oh my God. And you’re like, your name is so close to mom.

Yeah. Exactly. I don’t even know how it got to me.

You know how you’ve got the window open, and then by mistake, you’re like, anyways.

Yeah, or like, you’re doing 900 things on your phone, and then you’re like, what? Did I just take a screenshot and send it to the person that I was having the conversation with and not the person that I wanted to comment about this to? Did I do that?

And then I find Siri’s bad for that too, that you’ll say someone’s name, like I’ll say my husband’s name, and it keeps getting the wrong person.

And so someone I don’t actually mean to call, keeps getting text messages from me, who I haven’t gotten in touch with for like a year, but they’re getting things I mean for my husband, so yeah.

Siri made a group text. I was driving, and a group text already existed with two people, but instead, she added a person that I only know in a professional context to a conversation that was very, very personal.

And I didn’t know until an hour later, I get out of the car, and I’m like, Oh my gosh. And also I’ve been voice texting, so not only is she texting the wrong person, but she’s not transcribing it correctly as I’m driving, so it’s mostly nonsense.

Oh, that sounds like something I would do.

Mostly nonsense. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Those are good. Those are good. Okay.

What else is living in your head still?

Okay. I’ve got other. I know one time you talked about like clumsiness.

And so my thing would be anytime like I was in a really, I did work in publishing and was really stressed about a meme with my manager. So I sit down. We’re going to have a serious conversation.

And I don’t even know how, but my pen just went flying out of my hand, like unbidden to the other side of the room.

And we both just sit there looking at it, like just random things, like flying left and right without me even thinking I’m doing a thing. It’s really embarrassing when you’re trying to like have a serious conversation. So there’s that.

I do that too.

I’m like, I’ll pick up like my phone, but then it’s like I flunk it. I’m like, I didn’t mean to do that.

Yeah. And then, yeah. And so the Grand Finale one would be one when I was in my 20s, and I wanted to learn Italian.

And so I went to visit family friends in Italy. And I had this whole thing that I was like, everyone goes to Italy and the guys hit on them. And so I’m going to meet a French man, like, sorry, Italian man, this is what’s going to happen.

And I go there and it didn’t really happen. But what did not help was my friends asked if I wanted to go to the mountains or to the seaside. And I decided on the seaside.

We go there, we’re on this clouded beach. I’m like feeling all awkward in my one piece bathing suit and everyone’s there is either half naked or in bikinis.

And I’m just walking along the beach and I see this guy like floating basically on the edge of the water. But then like the waves are like making him tumble. So like he’s like rolling over like in the water and his head is not coming up for air.

And so I’m like watching him for a bit. I’m like, this guy’s drowning. And so crowded beach and I know a couple words in Italian and one of them is help, which is aiuto.

So I go, I turn to the to yell across the beach. I’m like, aiuto, aiuto.

And the lifeguard comes starts running and everyone’s staring at me, including I turn around and the guy who I thought was drowning was just floating and he was just playing in the waves. So he’s looking at me, the entire beach is staring at me.

So anyway, I’m like, sorry, that was embarrassing.

He’s like, I’m not drowning. This is how I relax.

I know. He was really weird. Like he did it for a really long time and he literally looked like he was dead.

Yeah.

And like, sorry, I care about you. Okay.

I know.

Sorry, I care about you. The line between being a hero and being deeply embarrassed is so thin.

I know it’s true. If I hadn’t said anything, he’d be dead.

Yeah. If you hadn’t said anything and he died, you’d be like, oh, God, if only I had said something. But for some reason, being wrong about that is too embarrassing.

That’s a good point though.

It helps me shift my perspective because it really does. Like even now, I cringe thinking about it. I’m like, oh my God.

Yeah.

You’re like, okay.

Maybe that’s why I didn’t meet a man in Italy.

Yeah. But if you didn’t meet a man in Italy, neither did I, and I really thought I was going to as well.

But that’s what they say though. It’s like all of the time, they’re constantly hitting on you and stuff like that. And I didn’t know.

No.

I was like, well, not me. I don’t know why, but this was also… I was there after Natalie Holloway disappeared, so I was extremely on alert.

I was on alert. Everybody was frightening to me. I went to one party and everybody was on like mushrooms, and I was not because I was very straight-laced.

And I thought we were having dinner, so I hadn’t eaten at dinner. And then we didn’t eat till like 11 at night. And then there was one guy.

I was like, I want to go home, but I don’t know where I am. And so I just asked the one guy wearing like a polo shirt, if he would drive me back. But he didn’t really speak any English and he took a different route.

And I just remember being like, I am going to grab him by the back of the head, bash his head against. I was imagining my survival. And then he just brought me back.

That’s all that happened. And he was perfectly nice, but I was ready. I was ready to kill a man.

Wow.

And that’s even before True Crime Podcast.

That’s before True Crime Podcast. All I had to go on was headlines about Natalie Holloway, and I was like, it’s not going to be me. That was the only time I socialized.

The only time I socialized. Otherwise, it was just me and the kids. Me and the kids every day, all day, in the middle of nowhere.

And it was actually a great summer. That was great. I read a lot of books.

That sounds awesome.

And you got paid for it?

Yeah, I got paid a very small amount of money, but they flew me over there, and I got to spend summer in Italy, so I didn’t really care.

And I had nothing to spend my money on either, so I went back to America with, I think, $1,000 for the whole summer, which is not a lot of money when you are planning to be an independent adult. But it’s not nothing.

Yeah, and you were in Italy.

I was in Italy. I was in Italy.

So, okay.

All right. Bye. Bye.

Bye.

Hello?

Hi, Katelyn, it’s Nora.

Hi, how are you?

Oh, now I’m recording, so we’re doing a lot better.

Great.

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. Okay, so tell me your story. I’m all ears.

Yeah, so when I saw the prompt for the most embarrassing, or the embarrassing moment that lives right in your head, I immediately thought of this moment in college, which was really not a big deal in hindsight, but I will never forget.

I took public transportation to and from my job during college, and this one stop had just a very big height differential between the subway platform and the street because of hills.

So it was, and it was an outdoor station, so you could see straight up the steps, probably what would be like three flights worth of steps straight up. So I get off the train one day. Yeah, yeah, I take these steps all the time.

I’m 20. I can walk up steps without falling. But not this day.

I am about two thirds of the way up the steps and I trip. So I was in college in the early aughts and those skirts that were in fashion were kind of three layers of cloth, you know, that flared out a little.

So they could flip up and expose your entire butt on a windy day, right? So I trip up the steps, the skirt flies up, exposes my butt. Luckily, I was wearing full butt underwear.

Unfortunately, that full butt underwear had a giant sunshine and rainbow that said, have a great day. And I, instead of being able to continue up the stairs, dropped my purse, it fell open, all of my items fell down all the way back to the platform.

And I had to go down all of the stairs and pick up all my items with people staring at me who had just seen my underwear and then back up all of the stairs.

Why is it so embarrassing to have to pick up items that belong to you?

Yeah, it didn’t help the situation.

It’s like everything you own is somehow embarrassing when it’s on the outside of your bag and you’re hunched over, like you’re just, it’s a gremlin mode. You’re just gathering.

Yeah, and no one helped me.

No.

No one helped.

No one helped. No one helped. They were like, that’s what you get.

That’s what you get when you show your full butt coverage underwear to a bunch of commuters. We are no longer on the same team. We have all turned against you and your sunshine underwear.

Yeah, it was awful.

And I am 35 and have never forgotten it.

I wouldn’t forget that either. I wouldn’t forget. I remember most stairs that I’ve fallen up or down.

Like there’s just something, there’s just something about that experience. Walking on the subway once, I fell up the stairs and I had my hands in my pockets.

Oh no, so you couldn’t catch yourself.

I felt so, I felt like one of those, you know, one of those toys where you push the little wooden platform and it’s like, it’s like a beaded animal that loses tension when you push the platform so the animal, like, you know, it’s usually a giraffe,

like crumbles and then pops back up. And then like, I fell like that. Like I just like boop, boop, booped. Like every joint just like hit.

And then I like, but I turned my head to the side. I had the time to do that, but it’s like I hit my knees and then my hips, and then like sorta turned on my arms. But it’s like I did not have the power to pull my hands out of my jacket fast enough.

And yeah.

Why can’t our brains cooperate more when we want to do things?

No, no. It’s also like, I feel like there’s been moments where if I spilled something out of my bag, you know, there are situations where I would say, now it belongs to the earth. Now it’s not.

Now I’m leaving without it. But college is not one of those times. I could not have, no, could not have walked away.

And it would have been, I mean, I have distinct, I know items I dropped, right?

Like I look back and I’m like, oh, that lip gloss I could have left, but my train, my card for the train, I could not leave behind and it went down.

And then just like the money, you know, and like you said, college, I mean, I was a girl college student. I don’t know who is it.

Yeah.

So I had to go get everything.

You had to go get everything. You’re like, I’m not, I could, could I replace that lip gloss? Yes, but it was like $7.99, and I’m not leaving that behind.

I’m not replacing that, even though it’s got grime and like the threads of the, of the lid, you know? Like there’s like a grittiness to it. No, no, no, no.

I have to go back. I have to go back and get this. That’s a great story.

And I’m sorry you, I’m sorry you fell in also. I’m kind of glad you did, because.

I mean, luckily, there was no actual, there was no physical injury, just a big ego hit.

And it’s funny now, but I will never forget that moment.

Also, because like, that’s an age where you really do want, like, you’re like, I want strangers to think that I’m cool.

Thank goodness this wasn’t surrounded by people I went to college with. I mean, as embarrassing as the strangers were, it would have been far worse if anyone I knew was present.

Did you jump up to, like, see if anyone you knew had seen?

I, well, I looked up really quick to see if anyone had seen and didn’t actually see everyone on the platform, you know, or walking up the stairs, right? Because the train had just, I was getting off the train.

So other people were walking up the stairs with me. So yeah, a lot of people saw and a lot of folks watched that were on the across the platform, waiting for the train in the other direction.

Yeah.

That train is clearly not just departed. There was a lot of people waiting.

Yeah. That was entertainment. You provided the entertainment.

You provided the show while they waited. Yeah. Oh God.

Okay. Well, thanks for that one. That was lovely.

I’m glad you’re okay. I’m glad you went back for the lip gloss. Bye, Kaitlyn.

Bye.

Hi, this is Pam.

Hi Pam, it’s Nora.

Hello there.

Hi, how’s it going?

Pretty good, how about you?

I’m good, I’m excited to hear your story.

I am very embarrassed that my neighbor downstairs thinks that I am a heavy walker and complains to my neighbors about it.

She said something to me, she’s been in our home, we have this condo building, and we have a party in Christmas and a party in the summer to get to know all of our neighbors and she came over and we exchanged our phone numbers and then she texted

saying, hey, I get up early most days, but on the weekends, could you not walk so heavy in the mornings? So I tried, I looked up things, I’m like, is there really a way to walk softer? Sure enough, you can walk on your tip, all these things.

And I tried all the things and it’s been like, it was a year ago. And one time she texted saying, tell the kids in your house to quit running. We don’t have any kids.

There were no kids here and nobody was running.

Oh my God, what?

Yeah. So I don’t know. My husband had walked over to get some coffee.

Like, I don’t know. So we’ve been, you know, I tried and then I kind of forget, but it just keeps it. So then we had to have some cleaning in the building.

Somebody had to have the, you know, the chimneys fixed or whatever. So one of my neighbors had to go around to all the buildings. And apparently this neighbor’s complained and said, I just can’t believe those people.

That woman walks on her heels all the time. And that man is just so big. And they’re just so loud, and I’m just, I think about it every single time I walk anywhere to get my coffee or anything.

Like, I cannot take a step without thinking about, I’m bothering my neighbor.

Oh, God. Oh, it’s also like, is this an older building?

1992.

Okay.

And we do live on the top floor. There’s somebody below us. There’s somebody below her too.

Yeah. But apparently there’s, I don’t know. I mean, did the person before, she’s been, the person before never said a thing, like a couple of years.

Okay.

Yeah.

She let us know right away.

She let you know right away. She was like, I don’t want, I don’t like the sound of stepping. I don’t like the sound of stepping.

I’m that person, but about the door outside my building, like the one that leads to the outside. When people let it slam, it like shakes everything, like things fall off my walls. Man, oh man, oh man, oh man.

Yeah, I’m sympathizing with you, buddy. That is, what are you supposed to do? Like be like, okay.

Well, I don’t know.

We actually had a whole new, we had a flood last January, some pipes froze. So we have a whole new layer of hardwood floors with put on top of the other layer with another level of soundproofing. And so I thought, this is going to do it.

She’ll never hear us. Sure enough. Like that it was just sure enough she can still hear us.

She doesn’t text me anymore, but I just I feel bad, but I don’t feel bad because it’s communal living. And you kind of know that you’re going to hear things and it’s, I’m not doing the trampoline. I’m not jumping rope.

I’m just, because I’m not even that heavy of a person.

Yeah, and also it’s like, even if you weren’t, it’s like that’s the, that is, that’s living in a building with other people too. Yeah. Like that’s just it.

Ours is concrete up above. So I mean, I have never, I couldn’t hear somebody walk if they-

I don’t think we have that.

Yeah, you gotta get it.

I think newer buildings have that.

Oh man, oh man. That’s, I used to get on my kids. My kids are stompers.

My kids are stompers. I got two heavy walkers where I’m like, guys, it’s when you’re inside, you don’t need to walk heel-toe. You walk like mid-foot heel.

Yeah.

But we had wood floors, we had little babies sleeping, and I was like the big kids, I was like, guys, you can’t stomp.

You got to just simply pad through the house.

Yeah, we have eight-year-old god kids who are going to be here for a week in the summer to go to camp.

They better learn how to tiptoe.

I tell them, no running in the house. But I mean…

But also, yeah, also, what are you going to do?

What are you going to do? I don’t know. I don’t know.

The only thing I can think of is those pads that you put in front of your kitchen sink so that your legs don’t get tired. I could put those all over the kitchen.

Yeah, you have to memory foam your entire floor. That’s the only solution to this issue.

Or just get over it and realize, hey, it’s communal living.

Yeah, just walk. Just walk. Like you’re going to hear stuff.

If it really bothers her that much, like she can get a white noise machine or something.

Oh, that’s not a bad idea either.

Yeah. I have a product suggestion. Tell her to get a snooze white noise machine.

You won’t hear anything.

I did feel bad. I had some major surgery November 7th. And so from like 10 weeks, I was up at all hours of the day and night, taking my pain meds and all of that.

So I’m like, oh my gosh, I’m really bugging her. But then sometimes she’ll even go on vacation for three weeks. And then I’m just to towing around the house for no reason.

Yeah.

Oh, and this is like the extent of your interactions has just been her complaining to you.

I mean, a couple of years ago, we had this nice interaction. And actually a year ago, she was gone on vacation and asked me to get some packages out of the lobby for her, which I did so that people wouldn’t steal them. So it’s been nice.

I just am so embarrassed that it’s still an issue and I haven’t learned how to walk in the software apparently.

I just, I would be beside myself trying, I would be like, okay, I’m going to go into the condo. I’m going to, I would say, trade places with me. You go walk through my apartment.

Yeah.

And then let me hear it.

That’s a good, yeah.

I’m going to make my husband walk around.

I want to hear what you’re hearing. I want to hear what you’re hearing. Send me some, send me some videos.

That is a good idea.

I am sure, yeah. And then, yeah, there’s, I definitely, I mean, it’s my goal to be friends with everybody in the building.

Yeah, you want to be liked. I want to be liked. I want someone so mad at me for the way I walk.

Okay. Yeah. Like, I don’t want to be accused of stomping when I’m not stomping.

Right.

Okay.

You’ll know when I’m stomping.

I was going to say, you want to see stomping. I can do it.

I can do it. I can get a rebounder into this condo, and that is why I am well within my rights to do it. Okay?

No one can stop me. I’m not doing it. I’m simply walking to my kitchen.

Pam, I’m sorry. I would be so self-conscious, too. I get it.

All right. Thank you for sharing that with me.

You’re very welcome.

All right. Well, go walk your little heart out, okay? Keep me posted.

If there’s any developments in the stomping saga, I do want to know. And you paid for that top-floor condo, so you enjoy it, okay?

All right. Keep up the good work.

Bye, Pam. I will.

Thank you. Bye.

Hello. All right. I am ready to hear your story.

Okay.

So I feel like it’s not technically in the back, like it’s not a moment, it’s a phase.

Okay.

And I basically want to talk about a period of my life when I was an anti-vaxxer.

Tell me everything. Okay.

It was through my late 20s and probably into my early 30s. I was living deeply rural in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, and my partner at the time was quite a bit older than I was.

And so was my, I had kind of dropped into her community, which although it was in Cape Breton, and I was a Cape Bretoner, it was a community of hippies and expats and draft dodgers that were all about 15 years older than me.

And so there was like quite a hippie vibe. And I think one of our hippie friends gave us a booklet about vaccinations, and it gave me a lot of concern. And we were pregnant, we were having a kid.

And so we decided not to vaccinate them for anything except for tetanus.

So when you read that, what were the concerns about the vaccinations?

Oh, I mean, I don’t even remember now, I wouldn’t be surprised. I mean, I’m 60 now, so that’s a long time ago.

Probably autism was in there, definitely a concern about like what are like the longer term consequences that we don’t know about a lot of skepticism. I was more, I don’t know. Yeah, I was probably somewhere between a skeptic and an anti-vaxxer.

I mean, it was pre-social media, so it wasn’t like I was like spreading the word or, but I just, yeah, I definitely had arguments with my mother about it.

Yeah. And the only thing you vaccinated for was tetanus because you were like, look, that I believe. I believe if you step on a rusty nail, that’ll mess you up, but I’ll take my chances with the mumps.

Yeah, there was a lot.

I mean, I had had mumps as a kid, so like whatever, and polio is down to like one case a year in North America. And like there were a variety of reasons for like all of the different diseases, but tetanus was like, okay, that’s like a real thing.

And, you know, that, yeah. My son is 32 now and he’s fully vaccinated as an adult.

Yeah, how did that evolve for you?

Well, I had a long period in which I had very little contact with my son from the age of 11 to the age of 19. And in that period of time, all my views changed a lot.

And when I reconnected with him in a more serious way, I had the conversation with them and I just said, look, this is what your mother and I thought at the time. I don’t know what she thinks now. I think it’s crazy.

I encourage you to go to a doctor and have a conversation and do what seems right to you. And he did and he got vaccinated.

I’m so angry at anti-vaxxers now, which I don’t know if that’s unfair or not, but I have like a wild amount of disdain for that position. But I also have a wild amount of disdain for myself in that period of my life.

Yeah. I think I want to hear more about that. Like now you have disdain for that point of view.

What changed?

I think, I mean, what changed? Okay, so I kind of moved into the woods when I was 26 years old and ended up in a relationship and had a whole life. I started a farm.

I had kids, you know, I built a house and I blew all that up when I was 40. And I didn’t know what I was doing. I was a mess, but I ended up not being able to stay in that community because I was phenomenally depressed and had no job or anything.

And I ended up moving into Halifax, which is like a small city. And when I was 42, I think, when I moved there, and I immediately fell in with like a group of young activists. And I basically feel like I started growing up when I was 42.

And I also met a lot of professionals and teachers. I dated a nurse for a while, and I just became very aware that the vast majority of people who work in public service are smart and intelligent and caring.

And I think another thing, too, I realized was, and I mean, I say this all the time to people, like when people talk about conspiracy theories, it’s like, do you know how hard it is to get along with one person or five? Or like one office?

Like, conspiracies are pretty much impossible.

I do have, and this is going to be, I got to tread a little carefully with this, but I do have empathy for that point of view.

I have empathy for people who are skeptical of medical establishment because there’s always like, the thing about conspiracy theories, the thing about even being anti-vax, being anti whatever, is like, there’s always like a little, a small

percentage, a kernel of truth somewhere in there. And I’m not saying I’m fully vaccinated, my kids are fully vaccinated. And the US government did run an entire syphilis experiment on black men, right?

Like there are cases of bad things being done, like we’re people who are kind of afraid naturally.

You know, and so I totally feel the same way. I mean, you know, here in Canada, a lot of that is with our indigenous people too, like, you know, they’ve been treated horribly.

And yeah, and I see groups like that, that can be really strong on anti-vaxxing and stuff. And you know, like there’s, and I, like you, I have empathy.

I mean, there’s a part of me that feels enraged, but then, you know, the more intellectual part of me stands back and says, you know, I’m not surprised to feel that way, considering the way that we’ve treated them in the past, you know?

Yeah, yeah. Or like, you know, I, I vaccinated, I got the COVID vaccine right away, even though I was like, you know, when you think about it.

They also said that opiates were perfectly safe and let the Sackler family completely decimate our, not just our country, I think that the opiate problem is everywhere.

Yeah, so I, I, I am like, well, but man, I really just, I really just lined up for that, didn’t I? But, you know, to your point, like there’s only one case of polio because of vaccines, because we vaccinated against it.

So it’s, I don’t know, there but for the grace of, of who knows what go I, but.

The fact that they’re invisible.

Yeah, yeah, the fact that they’re invisible actually means like that it’s working. It’s the curse of public health is that, you know, when it works, it’s fully invisible.

Well, it’s like Y2K. I don’t know if you read anything about Y2K and like there’s been some stuff come out just in the last few months, but it was like, you know, everybody just thought like, oh, all that fuss and bother and nothing ever happened.

But the reason nothing ever happened was because literally billions of dollars were spent and not on hype, on actual like reprogramming of computers and stuff. Like, it worked.

Yes, it worked. It worked. And that is why we didn’t need it.

Yeah, we didn’t need all of our doomsday prepping because people actually did the work. Yeah, I actually haven’t read a lot about that. I just remember being so scared that night and being like, should I even go out?

My parents were like, yeah, who cares? And I was like, I care. So man, man, oh man, you’re great.

Thank you for calling. Thank you.

Great voice, great talk. Thanks for the opportunity.

Yes, thank you.

Are you in Arizona?

I’m in Arizona and it’s going to be, God, global warming is really hitting us. I’m telling you, it’s January. No, it’s February, whoops.

And it’s going to be 82 today. That’s too hot.

It’s snowing on my car.

Oh, God, my husband misses that so much. He gets to choose our next location. But I chose this one.

So that’s marriage. That’s marriage.

Awesome.

Thanks, Nora.

Bye. Hello, this is Mindy.

Hi, Mindy, it’s Nora McInerny.

Hi. I’m gonna just put in my earplugs real quick.

Oh, good, good, good. Hello.

There we go. Hi, how are you?

Hi, I’m good. I’m getting over like the weirdest cold I’ve ever had in my life. So I have been coughing in a way that suggests that I will lose a lung.

If that happens, carry on without me. Leave me behind, I’ve had a good life. Like that.

That was a mild one. It’s so gross. It’s so gross.

And it’s going to last for like, do you get the kind that lasts for months?

I can’t jinx myself the way that I’ve been jinxing myself where I say, oh, it never happens.

It never happens. But it’s been a week and this is better. This is better.

So yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know. And now I have to order these dumb vitamins that my friend is taking because she did not get sick around me.

And I said, if you don’t get sick around me, then I’ll buy your stupid vitamins. And now I have to buy these stupid vitamins. So there we go, you know?

I mean, you never know.

If the worst case, it’s just really expensive pee.

Yeah.

But yeah, that’s all a good segue. Because my embarrassing story has to do with getting sick and how I dealt with it.

Tell me everything. Okay, set the scene, where are we?

Okay. So the scene is April of 2023, I was diagnosed with breast cancer completely out of the blue. I had never had any health problems before.

This is the case with a lot of people that get this. So I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and luckily, we caught it early. But of course, even early detection, you have to have this treatment is awful.

I mean, I was great when I had the cancer except for physically, I felt great because I didn’t know it was in there. But the treatment is the bad part. So I had to have a mastectomy, and I had to have chemo.

And during the chemo, I had, and part of this whole thing is really trying to, I realized there’s a people pleaser part of me that just felt like I am not going to make this anyone else’s problem.

I am going to be so good, and I’m going to handle this, and I’m going to keep living my life, and everything is going to be good, and I’m going to be positive. And-

You’re going to be the best cancer patient anyone has seen. They’re going to be, she had breast cancer, but she was like so good about it. She was so good about it.

Yeah, exactly, and I don’t think it was so much about me wanting to get an A plus for cancer, but maybe there was a little bit of that.

But I think most of it was like, I didn’t want people to feel sorry for me, and I didn’t want pity, and I didn’t want to become a drag on anyone else. I didn’t want to become somebody else’s problem, or they had to be weird around me or anything.

So anyway, and I was doing it as much to myself as anybody else.

So during this whole thing, I had seen on, this is like the early days of googly-eyeing everything, and there was just this one grandma on Instagram who had been like sticking googly-eyes in places. I was like, oh my gosh, that’s so funny.

So I started off going to these appointments and then the chemo infusions, like leaving teeny tiny rubber chickens places or taking googly-eyes and putting them on, like anything in the exam room that looked like it could be a face and a little

googly-eyes. And then nobody was taking him down. So I’d go to get chemo every week. And then I kind of started spreading.

So I get to the medical facility and there’s a sign that says like oncology and hematology, a bunch of O’s, googly-eyes on all the O’s. No one takes them down. Six weeks go by and I’m like, gosh, this is people’s first.

First, like, you know, they’re coming in for their very first appointment. They’re scared shitless. And there’s googly-eyes on all the O’s on oncology.

And, you know, in the bathrooms, anywhere I could do it. And then at this medical facility, all my appointments were also there. So all of the exam rooms, the lights, anatomy pictures, putting them everywhere.

And I was so, and it was so fun. Like this little, this mischief was so much fun. And then seven weeks into chemo, I, every, all, and all the nurses were so great.

They were all joking. They didn’t, they, like, they knew it was me. I think they figured out it was me, but they weren’t saying anything.

Like it, they were just, I had a great rapport with the nurses at chemo. And one day I went and everybody was so weird to me. And I was like, that’s weird.

Like they called me Ms. Thomas. They didn’t call me by, like, the troublemaker or anything.

Like they, they were just very professional with me all of a sudden. I was like, why are they being so professional? Why are they being so formal?

So I go through my infusion, everything’s fine. And then after it was over, one of the nurses said, I need you to come with me. And I was like, do I have to?

And she’s like, just come with me. And I went and we go into this exam room off the chemo room or whatever, and there’s this man in a suit, and they sit me down. And I was like, I’m so sorry.

I’ll stop. I’ll never do it again. And I’m just dying of embarrassment, trying to hold back tears instantly.

I was like, please, please don’t.

And the guy, it’s almost like he had to…

He was from security, I think. I didn’t even get what his role was or his name was or anything. I was just like, please don’t be mad at me.

Please don’t be mad at me. I’m sorry. I’ll never do it again.

I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.

And they wouldn’t. And the nurse is like looking at me with this look of pity, which is like the worst feeling for me, I realize.

And even the guy from security talking to me, he just is almost like he had prepared his whole speech and had to see it through in order to do his job or something.

Wait, what did they say? Like how did they say? When you walk in.

They told me they had me on video and wearing multiple wigs.

Oh, and then that particular day, oh, there you go. You all right?

I’m okay. I’m okay. That was a chunky one.

It was a little gross, but I’m sorry.

Those feel good though.

Wearing multiple wigs while like, yeah, it’s not a disguise.

I know.

That’s what I said.

I was like, oh my God, it’s not a disguise.

And that day, I didn’t have a wig on. I was sitting there and I had fun with the wigs. Like I just, I had fun with, I wasn’t afraid of having a bald head, but that day I had a bald head.

So I’m sitting there and I just felt so exposed and like an idiot that’s sitting there bald and small. And he’s telling me, we’ve seen you with multiple wigs. It turns out that day, he was like asking all the nurses, have you seen this woman?

And they’re all trying to protect me by saying no. And then finally he’s like, we have her name. And then they had to give me up.

So I was-

Over googly eyes?

Over googly eyes. Apparently some people, some other patients thought there were cameras in them. But anyway.

My god, okay. They thought there must have been copycats because they were all over the place. I’m like, no, I’m just here all the time.

I’m setting a trend.

I’m setting a trend, okay? It’s called whimsy. Who are the people who thought there were cameras in them?

They need a different kind of care.

That’s what I said. I was like, that is, if you think there’s googly eyes in a, or a camera in a googly eye, this is not your problem.

You better go see another doctor.

You need an MRI right away because it’s in your brain now.

Thank you, Nora.

Thank you.

Okay. I would have cried. I would have.

Oh yeah.

I would have.

I, yeah.

So then I started crying. And I was like, I just wanted to.

I was having fun.

Bring some levity to this place. I’m like, it is so sad here. It is so sad.

If you’ve been in one of these.

Yes.

Everyone, like people would get, and partly it’s because they’re sleeping, and maybe it’s like the only nap they’re gonna get, but it is such a sad place. And I just wanted to bring some levity.

Like if you could just make anybody smile when you go into the bathroom. And I was like, and it’s also your fault for never taking them down. So I had to spread throughout the whole facility.

Yeah.

If they were that big of a deal, you just take them down. You just take them down.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, that’s so bizarre. That would have, you would have never gotten in trouble at our hospital because the nurses were always decorating the oncology floor like first-grade teachers. Yeah.

I mean, you would think even around the holidays.

Yeah.

Oh, like, and it would be like, oh, our patient of the week, you know? Like Erin got best dressed. Okay, you gotta make it fun.

You gotta make it fun. I am so sorry that happened. I would be, I don’t think, I would have died.

I would have died. I would have died.

Yeah. I felt like I was dying. I think that was the closest I felt to dying.

Yeah. So it was the one time I drove myself to chemo. Oh no.

And I left there and I sat in my car crying for four straight hours. And it wasn’t just because of the embarrassment. That was part of it.

It was, I felt shame, embarrassment.

And then it was like everything I was trying to stave off by doing this and all the people that were in there and thinking like, oh my gosh, that was the, I realized that was the only thing that was making it exciting or fun for me to go to Kivo.

And I loved the nurses, but it was making it fun for me to like, plan, of course I had steroids on those Friday mornings. So I was all jacked up and like very bold, but it was, oh, it was just.

Someone taking you into a room with a security guard is like, and we have you on camera. You’re like, I’m sorry.

Is, if this is the biggest problem in your organization, if this is the biggest security threat is someone who’s putting up googly eyes, congratulations. Everything’s okay.

And then later on, I could laugh about it.

Yes, I can laugh about it. I can laugh, but I would have, I truly, Mindy, I would have been, I would have lost it. I would have lost it.

Yeah.

I got sent to the Consul’s Office one time in my life, and that was enough for me.

And I realized like, I have a definite mischief, mischievous?

Is it mischievous or mischievous? Who cares?

You know what, I think it depends on if you’re British or not.

Okay, that’s good to know. I have that streak, but I am also a rule follower, at least when the rules matter, and I don’t like to get in trouble. I was a good girl.

Yes, I was about to say.

I was a good kid.

Yes, same.

I’m like, I have good girl syndrome. And also, I like to have a little fun. I’m not gonna break a real rule, not a big rule, but if it’s not like a rule that’s posted, if it’s a harmless rule, like let’s have a little fun.

We can have a little bit of fun. Or as my friend Kate Kennedy says, fun within reason. Okay, that’s fun within reason.

Oh my God.

Oh, I’m gonna tell that to my kids.

Yeah, fun within reason.

You’re hurting yourself or hurting others. Go for it.

Yeah, go nuts within reason. Go relatively nuts. Have a little bit of nuts, but not too many nuts.

Thank you for this story. I will hold this for you. Oh, and Mindy, thank you so much.

You are a joy.

Thank you. You too. And have a great rest of your day.

Hope you feel better.

All right. Bye.

I’m going to go check out these vitamins.

Bye. Bye. I’m Nora McInerny, and this has been Thanks For Asking.

This is a call-in show about whatever you wanna talk about, so you should call me. You can leave a voicemail, you can text, and we can set something up. I record on Tuesdays, sometimes Fridays, so just keep that in mind.

The phone number is 612-568-4441. Again, you can call, you can text, and keep it as anonymous as you would like to be. If you prefer email and for me to just read, what you have to say, that is also fine.

It’s thanks at feelingsand.co. This episode was produced by Marcel Malekebu. Our opening theme music is by Joffrey Lamar Wilson, and the closing theme music is by My Young Son Q.

He keeps saying he’s working on more theme music for us, but this is the theme music we have now.

All of this work would not be possible without our supporting producers, who are the people who subscribe to us at the highest level over on the Substack, noraborialis.substack.com.

That is where you can find every episode of the podcast that we’ve ever done ad free, and a bunch of extra bonus episodes. I write weekly posts over there. All my writing and work is over there now.

So, link will be in the description.

But let’s thank our supporting producers, Melody Swinford, Beth Derry, Aaron John, Lauren Hanna, Caroline Moss, Sarah David, Elia Felees-Millan, Kaylee Sakai, Crystal, Jen Grimlin, Kaylee, Dave Gilmore, Kate Lyon, Jennifer Pavelka, Nicole Petey,

Larry Lefferts, Shannon Dominguez-Stevens, Chelsea Ciernik, Stephanie Johnson, Christina, Rachel Walton, Ben, Joe Theodosopoulos, Jeremy Essen, Kiara, Kathy Hamm, Lizzie DeVries, Jill McDonald, Micah, Laura Savoy, Beth Lippem, Katie, Andra

Brzezinski, Jen, Emily Ferriso, Jessica Reed, Michelle Toms, Virginia Labassi, Stacey Wilson, Elizabeth Berkley, Car Pan, Abby Arose, Amanda, Bonnie Robinson, Kim F., Stacey Demaro, Mary Beth Berry, Robin Roulard, Alexis Lane, Jessica LaTexier,

Lindsay Lund, Kate Balor-Jone, Courtney McCown, Faye Barons, Inga Harris, Monica, Madeline, Penny, Penny Pesta, God, I love that name, Jacqueline Ryder, Crystal Mann, Jess Blackwell, Lisa Piven, Renee Kepke, Joy Pollock, Val, David Binkley, Tom

Stockburger, Jennifer McDagle, Sarah Garifo, and Jess. Thank you so much, everybody, for being here. We will see you again very soon. Bye.