What Happened to You? (Part 2)

If the terrible things that happened to you during childhood can affect your physical health later in life, how do you NOT live out the worst possibilities for yourself? Is that even possible? In this second episode of our series about childhood trauma, we look at protective factors and resilience. And once again, we’re joined by Britt.

This episode was produced in partnership with: Call to Mind, American Public Media’s initiative to foster new conversations about mental health; St. David’s Center for Child and Family Development, which is building relationships that nurture the development of every child and family; with support from the Sauer Family Foundation, which is committed to improving the lives of disadvantaged children and their families in Minnesota.

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.

I’m Nora McInerny, and this is Terrible, Thanks for Asking.
In our previous episode, we met Britt. Britt: This is Britt, yeah.
If you didn’t listen to our last episode and meet Britt, you should. This is the second episode in a series about childhood trauma, and you should definitely go in order. So that one is episode #85. But no matter what you remember about number 85, we’re gonna do a little quick refresher. [SCOOBY DOO GO-BACK MUSIC]
Britt had some intense stuff happen to her during her childhood. Her parents divorced when she was young. Her mother died when Britt was 8. When her father remarried, the blended family situation involved conflict. Those fights often involved yelling. Britt got a tape recorder and started to document some arguments, which helped her feel more safe. But she says she much more often felt isolated, anxious and stressed.
We also learned from Dr. Brian Lynch who’s a pediatrician who works at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN that an overabundance of stress becomes toxic. This toxic stress can alter your physiology, brain development, and gene expression. It means that what happens in childhood can affect your health later in life.
Brian Lynch: [00:11:46] it can actually change your brain and change your biological systems.
Researchers and Clinicians like Dr. Lynch measure the bad, harmful stuff from your childhood with a tool called ACEs… Adverse Childhood Experiences. ACEs calculates the trauma that can produce toxic stress and gives you a score from 0 to 10. Most people in the U.S. have at least one ACE. Britt got a 7. ACES scores are linked to emotional, behavioral and physical health risks in adulthood. So Britt’s score of 7 means that as an adult, she’s statistically more at risk for a whole huge range of bad health stuff. Things like being a smoker, engaging in risky sexual behavior, or intravenous drug use. Also depression, suicidality, and anxiety. And even cancer, diabetes, and COPD. It goes on. But Britt isn’t a statistic. She’s a person. So the question is… with her adverse experiences… how the heck is Britt doing now?
Well. She’s 32 now. And she’s ONLY 32 now. She’s hopefully got a lot of adulthood ahead of her. And she has some adulthood behind her, too. And her adulthood has included some of the things that her ACES score says she is at risk for.
Britt: [01:13:38] The most immediate thing that I think has carried over from my childhood into my twenties is sadly anxiety. Can’t get rid of that. It kind of ebbs and flows but I’ve– I’ve been diagnosed with three different types of anxiety: panic disorder, generalized anxiety and social anxiety. And I used to have a really hard time with socializing and it’s gotten a lot easier over the years. But anxiety is at the forefront I’ve carried that with me.
As far as behaviors, Britt says she’s repeated some of the relationship models she saw as a kid. Britt: [01:15:25] so I immediately… got into an unhealthy relationship right out of high school… and then quickly dated someone that was ten years older than me and… and I look back at that relationship where I was belittled… just not cared for and I didn’t remove myself from it and one of the kind of insightful weird things that that ex… gave to me when we parted was this comment where he said “Britt one of the reasons why I got away with so much is because you didn’t ever give me any consequences. You let me get away with everything.”
Just to clarify: anyone who ever tells you that is misdirected in their ways of thinking and it is not your fault that they treated you badly. But all in all… Britt’s adulthood also has turned out… pretty well. She has built up a community around herself with strong friendships. She has a career as an artist, which is something that has always been a passion for her. She has her own business. She’s… pretty okay, actually. Britt: I’m… pretty good. I’m… a little sleep deprived I’m… working too much.
Same. But that sounds like Britt is feeling the kind of well-adjusted, adult stress that most of us experience. Not the toxic stress that she was feeling as a kid.
Maybe you’re thinking…why is that? Why do some people end up pretty okay and other people…not? How can we make sure that our crappy childhood experiences don’t totally ruin the rest of our lives?
Those are great questions. And we’ll get into that…after the break.
[MIDROLL 1]
And we’re back.
Last week we focused on some of the worst parts of Britt’s childhood. But as we are careful to say all the time – no one should be reduced to their sad story. It’s nowhere close to a complete picture of a person or of a situation. So let’s take another look at Britt’s childhood… from a different perspective.
[MUSIC]
The ACEs study itself doesn’t take into account the GOOD things about a childhood with adverse experiences. I’m not talking silver linings, like, wow it’s so GOOD these bad things happened to you. Aren’t you GLAD , in a way? What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, right?! No. I’m talking about things that prevent or lessen the blow of some of these traumas. Researchers and clinicians refer to these good things as protective factors. Protective factors aren’t like insulated, hermetically sealed safety bubbles. They don’t protect a kid from trauma. They’re not an eraser. They don’t cancel anyone’s ACEs.
Instead, protective factors are tools and skills in place to understand and process trauma. They’re like knee pads and wrist guards you put on when you head out to learn to rollerblade. You know you’re going to fall, and when you finally do you still feel the blow, but maybe you won’t break a bone in half and start bleeding and get an infection and lose a limb.
So what is a protective factor?
It kind of depends on who you ask. We asked Dr. Brian Lynch, who you might remember from the last episode and also like 8 minutes ago.
Brian Lynch: [00:27:09] So protective factors, I consider a very broad term and a big piece of that are factors that help either children or parents improve their resilience. So let’s focus on that first.
Part of the problem is that we don’t have shared language around what those mean. If you Google protective factors and ACEs, you are going to get a lot of different resources that are all going to say things in their own way.
Brian Lynch: We’re not talking always the same language. And one of the challenges we currently have right now is there’s no… agreed upon tool that really lists the quote or unquote right ACES. And… that shouldn’t stop us from trying to address this… this public health threat. So we took a look through a bunch of these resources. And we saw a lot of different protective factors listed, but a lot of sources share some common themes for protective factors. Some protective factors give children a sense of self. Some give children the tools to process trauma though expression or communication. Some give children models for how to behave. And some are just cozy blankets that make them feel loved. We have chosen to think of two buckets of protective factors to help talk about this – individual protective factors and relationship-based protective factors.
So let’s look at Britt’s childhood through the lens of her protective factors. What did Britt have going for her as a kid? As an individual and in her relationships? And how can we make sure the kids in our lives have what they need to be okay as adults?
[MUSIC OUT]
INDIVIDUAL
Our first category is the individual category. Think about this as personal traits and skills. Things you need to be able to get through this world. Things like adaptability, temperament, sense of humor…
And some of that is innate. It’s just a kid’s personality. So how would Britt describe herself as a kid? Britt: [01:00:36] I’ve been a pretty calm person and observant. And I think that’s kind of the spy in me I just was really… it gave me a sense of purpose that… you need to be kind of… contained and… neutral as much as you can and document things and… there was a structure to it and it felt healthy.
Britt: [01:02:42] Yeah I would say into my teens and older I was more of the peacemaker in the family or I would try to. I always like to seek resolution.
That’s just naturally part of who Britt IS — Britt is a calm, observant peacemaker. And not everyone is, and different people will have different strengths based on who THEY are, but these are some of Britt’s. Beyond their personality, there are also core life skills that every kid needs to learn. Not just because they have to eventually know how to butter their own bread, but because they need a sense of who they are and what they’re capable of. So when you give kids these skills you are…
Brian Lynch: [00:50:59] trying to increase a child’s sense of self-worth and their self-confidence. Some of this is going to be like, parenting 101. But think about it: the first thing that gives a child a sense of self-worth is whether they’re even worth paying attention to. When they cry, does someone respond? When they look at you, do you make a silly face? This is especially important for young, developing brains. It’s called serve and return.
Brian Lynch: [00:28:57] If you’re infant coos at you and smiles at you… you want to respond back. You don’t want to be looking at your phone… and not responding to those things, because those are very important… in building resilience, in building these skills and confidence.
So when you’re showing your child attention, you’re teaching them CONFIDENCE. You’re teaching them that they have worth. And they NEED that confidence, because someday, they’re gonna try something. And they’re gonna suck at it. They’re gonna fail. They’re gonna fail at walking. At tying their shoes. At using a fork. Or in my kid’s case, a spoon. Childhood is a series of failures. And your kid has GOTTA be ready for it.
Brian Lynch: [00:52:45] And I think that’s sometimes hard to convince parents– yes we want to be there and support them when they fail and help them… build themselves back up. But for them to have the confidence that they can go through that experience again later and be successful… many times you have to fail first even as a child.
[MUSIC]
One of Britt’s ways to build confidence and competence as a kid was through art. She had a lot of exposure and opportunity to explore and create, and it immediately connected with her. Britt: [01:01:43] ]I don’t know if it was just a distraction or a form of escapism but it never felt unhealthy. It felt really kind of powerful and fun and… —-
Britt: [01:02:22] And I don’t know who my audience was. I did that for myself and I didn’t have much of a family audience for that.
—-
Britt: [00:53:59] I think you know what that period of my life I was… that was that gave me a kind of sense of control and purpose and that felt wonderful. For Britt, the art also allowed her to express feelings — as a calm, quiet kid — that she sometimes didn’t feel she could express in her regular life. And it helped her develop mastery. It feels SO GOOD TO BE SO GOOD AT SOMETHING. RIGHT?! It also feels good to be a part of something GOOD and bigger than just YOU, which is an important protective factor as well. Brian Lynch: [00:51:10] And that can be through cultural beliefs, spiritual beliefs or just goal setting as a whole. The things that kids need are the basic knowledge to help them navigate the world, not just as kids but as adults, too.
Brian Lynch: it’s important that we expose our kids to experiences that challenged them with organization… emotional control… and flexible thinking.
Organization, emotional control and flexible thinking are things that MANY ADULTS I KNOW STRUGGLE WITH. If nobody teaches you how to be a person in the world… like how to pack your backpack so the homework doesn’t get all smushed in the bottom… how to not just punch your brother in the neck when he takes your Bakugan… if nobody teaches you how to register to vote or how people finance big purchases like cars…that sometimes plans change and that’s okay…how are you going to figure that out?
For younger kids, the best activity for this… is free play outside. Which is great because when they’re inside they’re stepping on my furniture. But outside, without an agenda set by the grown-ups, kids govern themselves. And they figure out how to solve problems.
Brian Lynch: [00:51:47] We also need to promote kids connecting with nature more, which has been shown to enhance resilience… there is nothing in front of screens that really help these skills, at least very much.
This is not a complete list of things. There’s also things like nutrition, strong cultural identity, setting limits, and more, depending on where you look and who you ask. But you can see that these skills and tools are not just about the kind of parenting that gets your kid out the door every day these are also the tools a kid needs to help them deal when something truly, truly awful happens. When they’re faced with dysfunction, abuse and neglect. Which every parent thinking, NOT MY KID! NO WAY! But maybe your kid? And maybe not your kid, but a kid you know who will know your kid. And maybe in the words of Hillary Clinton or Glennon Doyle depending on how you google it… there is no such thing as other people’s children.
[MUSIC CHANGE]
RELATIONSHIPS
So outside of trying to build your child into a super human with wonderful self-actualization and self-awareness… a tiny Pema Chödrön who knows emotional krav maga…and possibly ACTUAL krav maga…there’s more to protective factors than just what you do WITH kids. Another category of protective factors that are going to help kids deal with those truly truly awful things… are the relationships they have in place.
And not just their relationship with YOU… though we will get back to that. It’s also their relationships with their peers. That was really important for Britt as she was growing up.
[TAPE START SOUND]
15 Year Old Crystal [Archive Tape]: Hi I’m Crystal and today I’ll be interviewing Brittney. Okay so here we go. So what’s your favorite group?
15 Year Old Brittney [Archive Tape]: I have a few of those. Um I’ll start with Destiny’s Child because they’re my favorite. I really like Beyoncé she’s the lead singer. Um and then I like Blink 182. And… then I’d say Green Day.
[TAPE STOP SOUND]
Britt: [01:03:33] you know my journal basically every other journal entry is… “my best friend’s… Shelby my best friend’s Jennifer my best friend’s Jamie” and I had many best friends but… they were all the best friend. So it fluctuated and I really… took to… building my relationships with friends as a way to just comfort me.
[TAPE START SOUND]
15 Year Old Crystal [Archive Tape]: what’s your favorite stuffed animal like you know that’s… important to you?
15 Year Old Brittney [Archive Tape]: Um… probably my Sylvester I got from my… mom a long time ago and my dad. 15 Year Old Crystal [Archive Tape]: Um… what’s your favorite possession?
15 Year Old Brittney [Archive Tape]: Like… in my room?
15 Year Old Crystal [Archive Tape]: Yeah it could be anything it doesn’t have to be just one.
15 Year Old Brittney [Archive Tape]: Alright um… kind of strange but… my clothes. And… um… well [laughs]… my Elvis clock [laughs].
15 Year Old Crystal [Archive Tape]: OK um…
15 Year Old Brittney [Archive Tape]: And my mirror. I’m kidding! I’m kidding! [laughs]
[TAPE STOP SOUND]
In middle school, Britt didn’t know how to talk with her friends about the difficult things in her life. She was scared that her life was just too different from theirs. But that all changed in high school. In high school there is one friend in particular who changes Britt’s life. This friend is named Sam.
Britt: [00:56:13] she was probably the first person I opened up to about it in great detail and she really held space for… hearing that and… sharing her own stories and it was just like this huge huge weight lifted..
Britt and Sam got closer their sophomore year. And it was a huge connection for each of them to make. This is Sam telling us about her friendship with Britt, and how they connected, which was talking about their difficult childhoods.
Sam: [00:03:27] I just remember we both were like… parked next to the tennis courts… at the high school after we’d come back from lunch and we were both crying and in my truck and… both just like… really vulnerable and raw and just sharing things that… I don’t believe we’d shared with anyone else and…
——-
Sam: [00:16:33] we talked a lot about finding our voices she always… said that she wanted to be able to stand up for herself… and to protect people around her… from anyone that was harming or hurting anyone and so… that’s what I remember about her… pretty strongly is her… her idea of what right and wrong was… and what… was and wasn’t ok for someone to treat… her.
Britt and Sam were fast friends in high school. And their relationship is still strong today. Sam: [00:19:01] I think we’ve definitely found a strength… in the other person… and a desire to get out of the situations that we were in. And I think that that just kind of fueled each other. we would give each other cards for our birthdays and we would say this is the year. This is the year you’re going to grow so much stronger. You’re going to look back at the beginning of this year and you’re not even going to recognize this person. And so I think that we just had this… desire from the beginning to… get out of our situations and… be stronger and rise above it. And so I think we did validate that for each other.
[TAPE START SOUND]
[TAPE OF STEP BROTHER SINGING ENYA]
This is Britt with her stepbrother. Goofing around with her tape recorder.
As Britt grew up, even after her dad married her stepmom and conflict started to be common in her life, there WERE good times with her siblings and family. That is Enya, by the way in the background.
[ENYA ENDS AND TAPE CUTS TO INDISTINCT ELEVATED VOICES FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE]]
And during scary times – like when there was fighting in the house, or their stepmother was yelling – Britt had her sister.
[TAPE STOP SOUND]
Britt: [00:54:50] So my sister and I if we weren’t sharing rooms we were sharing a wall we moved a lot but… in one house we shared a wall and we had this knocking code and I don’t remember the specifics but one was like hello two was like come here. And 3 I think was like… coast is clear something like that. ——
Britt: [00:55:14] and we would kind of sneak into each other’s room… and pass the tape recorder back and forth and interview each other… [TAPE START SOUND]
Sister [Archive Tape]: Hnnnng… I don’t know… yeah. I’m going to your game so yeah… thanks for commenting on me not being able to go to the Backstreet Boys concert and not being able to watch TV while you’re watching basketball game right now thank you so much. OK. Talk to you later bye.
[TAPE STOP SOUND]
Britt: and or just kind of like share clothes or… share a couple giggles or anything to just kind of bring levity to… that uncomfortable… situation. [00:55:29][15.6]
[TAPE START SOUND]
15 Year Old Britt [Archive Tape]: I don’t know who else you like. Backstreet Boys? Ha ha. I don’t know. Sorry you can’t go to the concert haaaaaa… [snort]. That’s about it but I’m going to go watch basketball cause it’s on TV now… and… you have got to go to my game it’s… we’ll be leaving at… six… forty. Right now that’s in thirty minutes. So… get ready. See ya. Bye.
[TAPE ENDS]
So it’s not just peers that are important, but relationships within a kid’s broader community. Church community, neighborhood community, school community…
Britt: [01:08:43] I do recall in high school… playing basketball and that gave me the sense of… community. And that was so so… important to me… and new. And mind you I sucked at basketball but I was recruited because I was… and am almost 6 feet tall… so I just– I felt seen. I felt like the coaches saw me and they saw a tall girl that might be good… and little did they know… but it really just gave me this like bonding experience with other friends… and… a safe place to go after school and that was really key for me because I would avoid going home.
[MUSIC]
Beyond a network of peer, community and cultural relationships… there is one protective factor that everyone agrees is the single biggest thing that a kid needs. One ring to rule them all.
Brian Lynch: [00:27:23] So in a child, the single most important factor to increase resilience is having at least one supportive adult in their life. For a lot of kids, that supportive adult is most likely to be in their family. And Britt felt like she had that from time to time.
Early on in her life it was time with her mom and stepdad and step brothers. She was also with her dad a couple nights a week and on weekends. She describes him as a very empathetic person who loved her a lot.
After Britt’s mom died at age 32… when Britt was only 8 years old… Britt and her sister went to live full-time with their dad, who was a single guy at the time. Britt: [00:12:56] My dad was so playful with us he– every night before bed he would play us guitar. He would play… Tom Petty or Bob Dylan or make up his own songs and… play us a whole array of songs until we’d fall asleep. He would put the fan on and… cold sheets on us to… cool us off or rub our backs or… You know when we were awake we would play lots of games we’d go to the park and he would… wrap this up– we had this– I think it’s called a papa san this like… circular chair and had this cushion and it was a circle and… he would wrap us up in that and make tacos– his little daughter tacos and… he was very engaged and… that’s that’s– that’s the man that I miss.
Nora: I love that.
Britt: Yeah.
Her dad tried to help Britt grieve her mom’s death. He sent her to therapy and art therapy. He enrolled her in a camp for grieving kids, which is facilitated by… supportive adults!
Britt: [00:10:53] And I remember feeling… such… levity being there because I was around… what felt like maybe 100 kids of all ages who lost loved ones whether it was… parents or siblings or friends. And to feel kind of normal… amongst all of those people and to play– to have permission to play.
[MUSIC]
Britt’s adverse childhood experiences really came into play in middle school. And by that point, her family dynamic had changed. Britt was feeling anxiety and stress from a growing list of ACEs. And Britt didn’t feel like she had a family member to support her in an unstable situation.
Britt: [01:05:51] I think I just turned to peers mostly to… kind of have a sense of comfort and alternative family.
But role models and consistent adults can come from anywhere.
Brian Lynch: [00:28:10] Sometimes it’s a foster care situation. It’s a friend. It’s a neighbor. So there can be lots of different people who can be that supportive adult in a child’s life.
It could be mentors, advocates, teachers.
Britt: [01:07:01] I had a couple babysitters that were sweet… and that meant a lot to me… but I mostly was– if I wasn’t at home I was at friends houses and so the kind of… caretakers were my friends parents and… that was comforting yeah.
——-
Britt: [01:03:21] I was kind of just like a– a gleaner and a grabber of good people in my life trying to… absorb my friends parents and kind of get love through them and I really did feel that growing up and… ——-
Britt: [01:05:05] I had some role models that were…influential and they would be some teachers… some of my dad’s friends I did like that I grew up around.
This is something that Britt’s friend Sam definitely noticed as they were growing up. Sam: [00:35:08] I’ve watched women who are older… you know possibly like our mothers’ age kind of adopt Britt and take her… under their wing and… there was a woman who… we went to high school with her sons and she taught Britt how to drive.
Sam: [00:35:48] I mean I would say there’s been 10-15 women throughout our friendship that have adopted Britt essentially and done motherly things for her.
[MUSIC]
Here’s why all this Parenting 101 stuff matters: because more adverse childhood experiences can indicate a stronger likelihood of poor health in adulthood. So more protective factors aren’t just about building happier kids, but healthier adults.
The thing is, there isn’t yet research to tell us fully and exactly how your protective factors interact with the bad things that happen.
There isn’t yet a formula we can run that says well, your childhood kinda sucked but you did have a great relationship with your Mom and also, you played outside 143 days per year and also…*checks records* took a vitamin. Just that once. So you should be okay. We aren’t making our intern Megan Palmer calculate every bad thing that happened to Britt and every protective factor to come up with some sort of answer for why Britt is pretty okay right now… and whether she’ll continue to be pretty okay as she gets older.
We can’t do that, and also Britt is still young. She’s just 32, so some of the things she’s at risk for might not manifest for several more decades.
But we do know that her sister… who lived with her and experienced some of the same adverse childhood experiences… has already exhibited some of the health concerns that Britt is at risk for…including cancer.
Please don’t feel bad if all these protective factors don’t exist for you, or for your kids. They did not all exist for Britt, and they don’t ALL exist for anyone. It’s just, you know, the more you’re aware, hopefully the better you can do.
Brian Lynch: [00:54:28] You know, family, friends, neighbors, safe living environment are all things I think we should be working towards. Course in life we only have limited resources and you can only impact the things that are most easily impactful in your life and everybody’s life’s different. But certainly, I think to understand what protective factors are and which ones you might be able to enhance in your life is an important thing to try to do.
JUST TRY! Just like we’re going to try… to be back after a break.
Just kidding. We will be back. OR WILL WE? We will.
[MIDROLL 2]
And we’re back.
With a more developed picture of Britt’s childhood. Not just the bad things that happened to her, but the things that went right, too.
[MUSIC?]
What that picture shows us is… Britt’s resilience. And resilience is a word that I’ve struggled with. It’s a HOT word right now. It’s everywhere!
But the word “resilience” can be problematic, and not just because it sounds like a way you’d describe an all-weather tire. Or a hard-to-kill houseplant.
The way resilience gets used can be too simple. Too narrow. And too much pressure.
It’s simple because resilience seems like an easy excuse to make, especially when we’re talking about children and vulnerable populations. Especially when problems feel too big. Resilience can remove our feelings of responsibility for really doing anything meaningful about the problem… or our shame for not knowing how to approach the problem… because resilience! Hearing “kids are resilient!” sometimes feels like hearing, “nothing is wrong!” Or, “it doesn’t matter, because everything will be fine!” It’s a massive imbalance of power, and can be a source of trauma all on it’s own.
Part of why I hate the word resilience so much is the definition. And yes this is the definition I found on dictionary dot com.
Hans: Resilience… “The ability to recover quickly from tough situations.”
That’s so much pressure on people who are hurting.
I don’t want to raise children who believe it’s their job to hurry through the big, hurtful terrible things in life to achieve something they think they are expected to be. While I’m on a rant, there’s a second part of that definition of the word resilience.
Hans: “Elasticity; the ability to spring back into shape.”
I don’t want children to be defined by their traumas and their tragedies, but I also want them to be able to honor their suffering. To not focus on how quickly they can recover from something, to not feel pressure to return to their original shape when they are changed. I want them to know that yes, there ARE things to bounce back from — and quick. Life is going to be filled with small-to-medium setbacks and disappointments. But there are things that take longer to recover from. Things that aren’t so easy to overcome. And when we use the same word — resilience — for everything from a hard yoga class to grief and trauma? I mean, that’s tough for me! There are, in life, many “before and after moments” — moments where you know that after this specific thing, you will not be the same. You may look the same. You may act the same. You may keep your same job or your same haircut, stay in the same house, wear the same lipstick. But something inside you, some deep internal setting, has been switched.
Is my gripe just with the definition of resilience If we removed the word “quickly” from the definition “The ability to recover quickly from tough situations” Would I be okay with that? Would I be okay with it if we just said you returned to A shape, and not THE SAME shape? Maybe? I’m being difficult because I know that when words like this catch fire, when they’re introduced into the popular lexicon as synonyms for “strong” or “capable” — where they’re really catchy on instagram and pinterest — there is a pressure for people to live up to these words. If you do NOT recover quickly, if you do NOT go back to your original shape, are you NOT resilient? And if you are NOT resilient, what are you? Weak? Self-obsessed? What word describes a person who’s just struggling? Who is just wading through? Who’s trying their best, but still having a really really hard time? I don’t know. Maybe it IS resilience?
[MUSIC OUT]
Brandon: [00:53:22] I think it’s one of those things that it’s hard to measure resiliency. This is Brandon Jones. He is a therapist who works with childhood trauma. And yeah, when I interviewed him he got that full rant on the word resilience. Here is the thing about resilience — it IS GREAT! And in certain ways we are all resilient. When we are babies, we fall and then we get back up. When we are kids, we fall off our bikes and we get back on. Why am I so obsessed with falling?
Brandon really helped me with my resistance to that word.
Brandon: [00:45:43] Resiliency means being able to overcome. This is my definition– being able to overcome adversity and still have joy in your life. That’s it. It’s developing your mindset using things like social emotional intelligence and being healthy. You know I work with a lot of folks who’ve been sexually abused who’ve been domestic violence situations… who’ve been sex trafficked… all different types of things. And I tell those folks the reason why you’re still here is because you’re resilient you’re overcoming those situations… you’re overcoming chemical dependency to still be present to still have a life of joy and fulfillment. That’s what makes someone resilience to me. The Instagram the Pinterest post all those things are great. All those quotes are great… but those things are just you know small reminders for you to keep going and be the best person that you can be.
So that definition helps me a lot. And it lines up with everything we’ve been talking about. Developing your mindset, your social emotional intelligence. Leveraging your relationships. Being healthy.
When we apply resilience to the concept of childhood trauma… it’s not about small setbacks, it’s about big trauma. It’s not about snapping back. It’s not about returning to your shape, and quickly.
It’s about accepting, understanding, and processing.
So within the context of ACEs, if your rollerblading wrist guards and knee pads are your protective factors… once you hit the sidewalk that is your ACEs… how you react is your resilience. Do you lie on the concrete crying? Do you get up and burn your rollerblades? Do you laugh and get up and start skating again and later on show off your purple bruises to your friends before executing a perfect triple lutz with your newfound skills?
[MUSIC]
As Brandon points out, resilience is the ability to overcome. Which you can also do even without having had protective factors. Or enough protective factors. Or the ones you needed at the time.
We talked with Brandon because most of the people listening to this will have already gone through their Adverse Childhood Experiences. Like Britt, they will be looking back at their childhood trying to understand it. Knowing that we are all fundamentally changed by our ACEs.
Brandon: [00:54:28] This is where we’re at…your journey of healing is going to make you different. Trying to return back to who you were before the incident or trying to return to you know who you were at the time of that incident is not going to help you. You need to focus on where you’re at now. How do you get better in this moment? Even in spite of the things that have happened to you.
And it’s important that we talk about what adults do with their ACEs, whether or not they had protective factors as a kid.
Brandon: [00:47:34] Those things happened. Those things are real. That’s still part of your life. But the key is you’re here now. You’re getting better now. We’re not defining you by the negative experiences that you live, we’re defining you about how you show up and act today.
Look, NOT EVERYONE is at a place where they can be doing this work. For a lot of reasons. Some of us are just in survival mode. Brandon: [00:20:00] And unfortunately when you’re survival mode you’re not thinking about legacy you’re not thinking about the consequences of things later… you’re thinking about I need to address this trauma right here right now and I’m I do whatever it takes to feel good. And unfortunately a lot of the things available to feel good… end up causing bad things later. Right, so we have a lot of promiscuous sex… a lot of overeating smoking drinking or they have been a bad health outcomes like S.T.I.’s and things like that… is because they’re not– you know they’re not actively dealing with the stress in a healthy way… they’re just trying to feel good in the moment.
In the previousepisode, I talked about looking at people and asking “what happened to you?” instead of “what is wrong with you?” And sometimes, when we see people doing unhealthy things, it’s easier to assume they’re JUST making bad choices instead of thinking, “oh, maybe you’re doing this because you were hurt…because you’re hurting.”
Not all of us can be self-care queens meditating for 30 minutes a day, starting each day with a journaling practice while sipping a freshly pressed juice and then going to yoga. Not all of us can go to therapy! Not all of us are ready for it, not all of us are interested in that. You don’t have to be.
Brandon: [00:57:51] So I have a concept called the ABC is of resilience right. So the first thing is awareness and that’s what I try to do with the folks that I work with. You’re here like boom… be aware… you’re OK. Yeah– well– you might not feel OK but you’re present, right? So that awareness and then adapting to that awareness is important. Now that you here what are we gonna do?
So the A in Brandons ABC’s of resilience… is Adaptive Awareness. The B… is Balance and Boundaries.
Brandon: So now you got to figure out what your balance is… how are you spending your time and energy? How how are you focused on yourself versus focusing on other people? How are you balancing your wants versus your needs? How are you balancing your compassion and your accountability– like how are you balancing all these things? Recognize your situation with Adaptive Awareness… and then set up the work with balance and boundaries. Now it’s time to take action with step C…
Brandon: Constructive choices or healthy habits. How do you start doing these things and being consistent? I think that that’s a pattern that’s a framework for people to get better and to get healthy and to be resilient. But you gotta– you have to do some work you can’t just assume that time heals all wounds… and things are gonna get better.
Those consistent choices and healthy habits look different for people. And here’s the rub. However you choose to show up and work, it’s probably not going to feel good right away. In fact, it might not be fun. It might be the worst! Getting better kinda sucks!
Brandon: [00:59:59] There is no growth in the comfort zone and there’s no comfort in the growth zone. And that’s just… that’s just the truth. Right– if you want to heal– if you want to grow… it’s going to be painful. Emotionally sometimes physically. But again you’re looking for results that are better than where you’re at and you have to put yourself through those things. It is just important.
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Brandon: [00:22:31] I think therapy is probably the number one thing because you’re gonna get a trained professional… who can ask those you know critical questions… to help you kind of dig deep into that childhood and figure out what happened. Nora: [00:22:42] It sounds like it’s… a… a way of broadening your context beyond just what happened to you.
Brandon: [00:22:49] Right yeah. And you have to right because if you get stuck in “this happened to me” it can get very lonely… you can start blaming yourself… that’s the reason why these things happen. You might start developing more hatred for the folks around you like well my mom didn’t do enough for me or my father didn’t… he wasn’t there for me and all– you can do– you can have all those things happening and those things are unhealthy… because really it’s about you healing not about directing blame towards anybody. And it happens a lot for folks who go through trauma.
This can all be overwhelming to think about before you start. There are physiological effects to reliving your traumas. And maybe you’re still in the middle of trauma, still going through it. Brandon: [01:09:34] get the help that you need… give yourself permission that it’s OK if you mess up.
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Brandon: [01:08:42] Right you’re not gonna be perfect.
We’re never perfect. That’s not the point. That pain all remains a part of our story. But what we do with that pain is what’s important.
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32 year old Britt goes to therapy and practices a lot of stress relief tactics like meditation and mindfulness. She creates art and fosters a sense of purpose and identity. She maintains and builds positive relationships. She is actively doing the work of staying resilient. She is using her tools and skills.
And she’s tried to use those tools and skills to communicate with her family. To process some of her adverse childhood experiences with them.
Britt and her dad have sat down… just the two of them… a few times in recent years. They tried to have a dialogue about the past.
Britt: [01:21:39] I basically expressed to him that… you know my childhood was really hard for me and here’s my story and I kind of revealed things but I said I also want to hear your side of the story. It’s something I didn’t think about as a child and I really want to… hear your perspective. Did you see these things happen did you… did you fear for us kids? Were you in fight or flight mode? All of these questions I had and I was very present and that made me feel proud because I was afraid that… I would just kind of flee my body and not be… not be there to… say what I needed to say. And it was a really good heart to heart and… you know we cried and he heard me… and he… explained somewhat of his side you know that he– he didn’t quite see it… all that way. He did kind of… invalidate me I felt at times with just… if I would explain something that my step mom would do he would go immediately into “well she was in a lot of pain Britt.” But he has his own story and it felt good to hear kind of where he came from and that he… you know he cried he felt– he felt bad– he’s– he’s… he heard me and… held space for me to just kind of explain my story.
Britt’s dad also remembers this conversation. He told us that he “always tried to empathize with Britt. We had more than one conversation about it and I don’t know what I can do to help her more than just listening, which I always tried to do, but I also felt that I personally could not FIX her feelings or attitude about this matter.”
But there is still a lot of strain in the family relationships. Britt’s dad is still married to Britt’s step mother. And there have been several moments of conflict, including one where Britt says she was able to talk directly with her step mother about her behavior.. Britt’s stepmother was very agitated and started yelling in response. Britt was told to leave the house and not come back. Britt’s father told us that telling Britt not to come back was “an extreme comment.”
And then… Britt’s sister was diagnosed with thyroid cancer at age 32. And suddenly, standing in a hospital room, Britt and her dad were in the same place for the first time in a year.
Britt: [01:31:16] And we kind of did like a awkward hug and then he said “Britt at some point I’d like to thaw the civil war and maybe we can talk.” We had a very present talk for about an hour and a half walking in some park in his town and… I said everything that I wanted to say and then some and I felt like I was… articulating things in a way that I didn’t before and I felt I felt at times he heard me but he– I was even able to say to him and stop him when he would… invalidate me… I said “Dad do you realize a pattern where every time I say… something that my step mom would do… you go straight into… ‘but… she was in pain’ and her side of things and it feels very invalidating.” And he heard that. Britt’s dad told us that he was sure Britt told him “once again about her pain, I must have mentioned that [her stepmother] is in pain too. Their pains are different whereas Britt is talking emotional pain and [her stepmother] has physical pain. I didn’t want it to be insensitive but more to suggest that it goes both ways. No story like this is one sided. I love Britt and wish I could help and still hope to help her feel better about things. I might not be able to do much about the past, but perhaps the future can hold a better feeling for both of us.”
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We don’t know what will happen with Britt’s family. Whether they will be able to communicate.
And we don’t know what will happen to Britt. Whether her protective factors and her resilience will help her avoid the worst of the risks that her adverse childhood experiences tell us she faces.
But we do know that she’s not looking to return to her previous shape and do it quickly. She is allowing herself to be changed. And she’s learning to live comfortably in that new version of herself. To make sure that that new version does the least damage, and asks for the most good, in this topsy turvy world in which we live.
If ACEs tells us that the things that happen to us in childhood can affect us as adults, it also tells us that as adults with ACEs, we can pass on those effects to our children.
And Britt has thought a lot about that cycle. When we talked with her about ACEs and she learned about the health risks that she faces, she was surprised. And scared.
Britt: [01:33:47] I don’t want children and it kind of scares me. I’ve been pretty definitive… about not having children out of fear. Although everyone that knows me says “You’d be such a loving mother.” I’m just so afraid of that you know coming up. It’s it feels inevitable and that really does scare me.
….Next episode, the third in this series, we’ll talk about passing it on. And the bigger picture. How this affects all of us.