Forever Alone? (Part 2)

In part one of “Forever Alone?” we met chronically single Chelsea, who was looking for love in all the same places we all look for love … and coming up empty-handed.

In this episode, we meet Chelsea’s new boyfriend and explore what happens when the love we find isn’t what we expected.

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.

[THEME MUSIC]
Hi. I’m Nora McInerny. And this is Terrible, Thanks for Asking.
Last week, you met my friend Chelsea. Chronically single, but not by choice. Which was not acceptable to me or anyone who knew her, because she’s great. We talked all about her dating patterns and at the end of the episode, I told you that she’d met someone, but you had to wait a week to meet him. Nora: [00:04:50] Who is in this room with us? Chelsea: [00:04:52] My boyfriend… [laughs]… my boyfriend Brian. Brian and I have been seeing each other since the beginning of December… so I’m… no good at math but it is almost the beginning of August. So how long is that? Eight months? Brian: Yeah… yeah.
NARRATION
We should tell you that this was not the episode we wanted to make this week. This episode was intended to be the happy ending that Chelsea deserved. That Brian deserved. That you, the listener, deserved. Because it’s been a doozy of a year and of a season and FOR PETE SAKE WE JUST WANTED TO TIE THINGS UP NEATLY AND BRING YOU A LOVE STORY FILLED WITH HARD WORK AND REDEMPTION AND THE ASSERTION THAT LOVE IS NOT ALWAYS EASY BUT IS ALWAYS WORTH IT.
Brian: [00:11:15] Well… I’m… I’m an addict… alcoholic and… that’s… it creates a lot of issues… for me by myself and in a relationship with Chelsea. If you’re arleady armchair quarterbacking this relationship. Maybe you’re thinking, ughhh, Chelsea! This is not a good relationship to jump into at this juncture! Or maybe you’re thinking, Brian, maybe you’re not ready for a relationship yet! But. Try to suspend that thought just for a second. Because everything is so clear when you’re looking in at someone else’s relationship. Or looking back on one of your own, from a safe, comfortable distance. But when you’re in it? It’s just never that easy. Brian: [00:16:39] no one ever sets up… you know a Match.com profile that says like looking for recovering addicts. [THEME MUSIC OUT]
Chelsea didn’t set up a Match.com profile, and neither did Brian! This love story… like all great love stories… started when a bunch of dads and their dad-age single friends decided to re-live their early 20’s by quite literally getting the band back together.
[MUSIC FROM THE FUTURE EATERS]
THIS… is THAT BAND I don’t have a vocabulary for music, but the kids in our house call it Dad Rock. The guys do not like that. But if the description fits…
The guys practice in my basement every Sunday… surrounded by kids toys, diaper bags and guitar amplifiers.
My husband Matthew is the drummer. Which means I am living a long time dream of mine to make out with a drummer. Brian is the guitarist.. Brian is so sweet. I call him Thor behind his back and to his face because he’s a real brawny, Nordic dude. He has really well-done, artistic tattoos. The kindest face. He is a fine artist. He is a great guitar player. He’s so SWEET. [FUTURE EATERS MUSIC OUT]
So it’s early December of 2016. Only a week or so after I had interviewed Chelsea for last week’s episode, about her being forever alone… Which meant that she and her love life were on my mind when the band started to arrive for practice. And in walks Brian… this kind and handsome man and I thought, hmmmm, who else do I know who is single and looking to mingle?
Chelsea: [00:05:44] We met in this house. At… at your house. I came over for dinner… one night… on a Sunday… and… Mattie had just finished band practice… and… one of his bandmates… just conveniently was… was still here… and stayed for dinner.
NARRATION
OK… in this case… conveniently is another word for “because Nora set it up.”
We were eating a homemade, Whole 30 compliant meal that night. No gluten. No dairy. No added sugar. But lot of added romance. The kids set the table. Everyone had mostly clean flatware. And Brian and Chelsea were CONVENIENTLY seated near each other at our kitchen table.
That, it turns out, is a recipe for romance. Chelsea: [00:05:44] …the next day he looked me up… found my web site… sent me an e-mail. Nora: [00:07:51] Do you make a habit of looking up every… dinner guest? Brian: [00:07:55] [Laughing] No I don’t. I don’t know. I was… I was in a place… where I was… looking to date someone… too. And… she was sort of the first person that I’d really been interested in… creativity is a very attractive quality… you know. And she’s very cute. And as we got to know each other… better I found out you know… how kind and caring she can be. And… how calm… she can be… even in stressful situations which is kind of… amazing to me. But… yeah I mean the the… the creative… side was really sort of what drew me in. NARRATION
Brian was thoughtful. He planned dates. He made dinner AND did the dishes. Things were just, GOOD. Not like, oh I finally met a guy and now my life is complete! But she was changing. She was letting someone love her. She was…lighter. Less filled with doubt. I don’t know, it’s hard to describe those indescribable changes you see in someone when they are in love. It’s like, they’re a brighter version of themselves. They’re…luminous in some way? And I had to assure her: THIS IS GOOD. This is what it is like to be liked – really liked – by a man who is worth your time.
Chelsea: I wasn’t used to someone being like so kind to me. And that’s sort of what this whole relationship has… been. Is just like sort of being like constantly showered with like love and kindness from another human being and it’s like… for some reason like so hard to accept because you always like feel like you have something defective that’s not worthy… of that sort of attention. [choking up] But yeah… [laughing] Yeah the early part of the relationship was just like… so different from anything I’ve ever… experienced. like allowing myself to be loved.
[MUSIC]
NARRATION
So. You look for love. You FIND it. And you each bring to the other all of your old vulnerabilities and hurts.
After a couple of dates… Brian tells Chelsea about his drinking. Chelsea tells Brian about her dating past. How she’d felt unlovable. That is the beautiful work of a fresh relationship: making one another brand new again. This…limitless possibility of what could be. Brian: [00:16:39] Oh I was pretty terrified. I mean… she wasn’t the first person that I’ve told… by any means. But the first person who’s… you know attention I was sort of seeking… whose affection I was seeking… that I had to tell. NARRATION
Brian had been sober for months before meeting Chelsea. And for the first few months they were together he stayed sober. It was the first significant period of sobriety in his adult life.
Brian: [00:24:26] You know I don’t remember as much about like the first time I drank… immediately I remember thinking that like I can’t let Chelsea find out about this because um…we’re still at, you know, a somewhat delicate place in our relationship. I don’t want to scare her. Chelsea: [00:31:51] Ummm… he had been what he was calling like post-acute withdrawal syndrome which can cause withdrawal symptoms to happen for a long period of time. And so I think that’s what he was using to sort of hide the fact that he had been drinking for like a couple weeks before that. Um… And I had been concerned and maybe like slightly suspicious like my mom had asked like Are you sure he’s not using And I said like I guess I can’t be sure. Um… But you know all I can really do. All You can really do is trust your partner and I think that that’s been like an interesting like the like a really hard part of the grander situation, um… is just wanting to be able to like put trust and faith in your partner and taking their word um… [PAUSE]
Nora: [00:25:28] Did you think that would be the only time?
Brian: [00:25:31] Oh you always think it’s going to be the only time. But the problem is that um… you know…Addiction really loves you really loves shame sort of feeds on it and it’s hard, um, you know aside from like the physical aspect of addiction there’s you know a psychological side too, um where you just feel, um feel bad. For what you’ve done. And the way you cope with feeling bad is by turning to your drug of choice and then you use and you feel bad about it. And it it sort of continues in that cycle perpetually. Nora: [00:26:45] How often were you drinking. Brian: [00:26:48] Oh probably about every other day. Um… You know I really try to… And I think this is fairly common…You know people, you think you can …when you’re when you’re in the midst of the remorse from drinking. It’s very easy to get enough of a grasp on things that you can have a small period of sobriety. And then as soon as you feel ok again you think that you’re in control and and often you know go back to using again. Nora: [00:27:28] Where did you drink. Brian: [00:27:31] Oh at-at home. I mean I’m a big isolator and always have been. [MUSIC]
NARRATION
By that he means, he’d go home, chug a bottle of wine in his garage, and like, carry on with his life. There are a lot of different kinds of alcoholics. Some people are mean or violent. Some are just…lovable and kinda goofy? Plenty of people are high-functioning and maintain jobs and friendships and seem totally fine aside from the fact that they drink, like, all the time. Some people binge drink all the time. Some people can stay sober and go on big benders…look, there are lots of ways to be an alcoholic. Brian is the kind who drinks large quantities of alcohol all alone. But he doesn’t get mean. He doesn’t get violent. He just gets drunk. But we didn’t know that. Matthew — my husband — had known Brian since they were teenagers and never seen him drink. I’d never seen him drink. Chelsea had never seen him drink.
So when he seemed weird, like at a dinner, where he was sort of uncharacteristically goofy, and also having a hard time following the conversation…we were like, oh, it’s acute withdrawal syndrome. But then, one day… Chelsea gets a call from the gym where Brian works. Chelsea: [00:30:07] I got a call from his work that he had been um… that that someone had called had called um… his boss because they were concerned that he had been drinking, um… while he was at work, um…and that he was acting abnormally. And so I at the time had thought that he was kind of going like he had said he had some sort of like some sort of… [PHONE RINGS]
Nora: [00:30:53] We got a landline, folks. Chelsea: [00:30:57] Is someone going to get that? Nora: [00:31:09] All right. [MUSIC]
Chelsea: [00:32:59] I immediately just like panicked, You know I was just like oh you know like this has to be a mistake. And then he said that that Brian had admitted to the woman at the gym that he had been drinking since the morning. And then my heart just kind of sank. I sort of dropped everything and got in the car and drove to Southdale E.R. And. Nora: [00:34:15] Which is literally the opposite. Chelsea: [00:34:16] Of where I live. Nora: [00:34:18] In a rush hour. Chelsea: [00:34:19] Yeah, In rush hour traffic. Nora: [00:34:19] You rushed there at twenty miles an hour. Chelsea: [00:34:24] Yeah, yup. And I got there and I mean I could immediately kind of see, I mean Brian was pretty out of it, um… but I could see sort of like the shame and disappointment just on all over his face and it was really difficult. [MUSIC CHANGE]
NARRATION
I want to say here that this isn’t unusual. According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, relapse rates for addiction are between 40 and 60%. Since that night, Brian has gotten sober. Then gotten drunk. Gotten sober. Then drunk. started a new treatment program. It’s intense and customized to him. And like I said, relapse is common. And that first relapse — unfortunately, but also commonly — hasn’t been the only relapse. Which is…brutal. Because knowing where you fit in with someone’s addiction and treatment is really difficult, especially when you love this person. And Chelsea had to learn to navigate that: not just building this new relationship, but figuring out how the relationship changes when Brian is using again. (1:33) Chelsea Thursday night. It’s just kind of been my tradition to try and leave… but I usually alert his parents, not because he’s not a functioning adult, but because I really do want someone to be aware of his health. Um, and be checking in on him as well. Because I don’t really want to be a part of the cycle, but I also care about him a lot. (2:16) Nora And you have a role of some kind.
Chelsea (sniffle, sniffle) Yeah… yeah. 2:22 [MUSIC]
NARRATION
If Brian had cancer that came back, and Chelsea stayed? She’d get sympathy and love from people. And cards. And meals dropped off. That…doesn’t happen when your beloved is an addict. Which makes something difficult and lonely…more difficult, and more lonely.
Chelsea: There’s just a lot of lack of compassion for addicts. And like learning what I’ve learned through this process, you know, it’s just… heartbreaking, because people just don’t have any patience for it and it just seems like something that people just can’t help. I mean people do get sober and live with sobriety, I mean your dad did and your brother is. I know that it’s a super common issue, I try to talk about it a lot to people because the more I talk about the more people will say like they got an experience with it, and it’s hard because my mom grew up around addicts who never got better and I think everyone has different experiences and it’s hard because it just feels like a very misunderstood disease– disease is the right word? Chelsea: But yeah I worry that he could die, and I think it’s becoming such a, like a common story. I feel like you just hear people all the time, overdosing or you know, like, alcohol I feel like there’s just so many ways for it to creep up on you. Whether it’s like poisoning, or like some sort of– you know– organ shutting down.
Chelsea: And that’s the exhausting part too, I think, for me as well– that constant not knowing. Usually I can operate on a right or wrong, you know, of making-decision making. And this is such an ambiguous one, you know, of how do I know I’m making the right choices? You know?
Nora: Brian, what do we do? What should we do?. But I want to know– I think everybody who listens to this, is going to be like “what do we doooo”. Like, but now what? Like what do we do, how do we be there for you.
Brian: I’m not sure– um, I mean I know… but… what I’ve told Chelsea is I want you to be supportive, but she can’t be my support system. My entire support system. I want to be sober for her, but she can’t be the reason that I’m sober. Um… and there’s a number of reasons for that, but #1 is if she’s the reason I’m sober and I relapse… what does that say about her and about our relationship? Um… I think you just… I think you can voice concern and love, but you have to take care of yourselves.
Chelsea: And I feel like from the other side it’s like so hard too because– alcohol is such a legal and normal, plentiful drug, it’s just like… last night we were over here you know, for dinner and there’s just like a bottle of wine– I’ve gotten so hyper aware of every single adult thing revolves around alcohol, and that can be very difficult, for me, you know, a light to moderate drinker my whole adult life.
Nora: Like, go to TJ Maxx, my favorite place, and like tea towels. Like, “It’s time for wine!”
Chelsea: Yeah, wine o’clock!
Nora: Yeah, like wine plus yoga! I was like that’s not even an equation. Like that would make me sick.
[MUSIC]
Brian: I have to keep trying. I just have to keep trying. When I was able to get sober before it was just by listening to people who knew better than I do and doing what they told me to do. And I think I’ve been maybe caught in so much sort of… self doubt and just low self esteem lately that I Was just really trying to grasp onto things for myself, and I just need to let go and do what I’m told now. And I’m hoping that will work again– and the problem is just keeping it up, over time. Nora: are you still glad I tricked you into coming over for dinner when I definitely knew somebody else was going to be there?
Chelsea: I am. You know it’s… life. It’s hard sometimes and 17:50 certainly like worth it, you know? To go through hard things? To… You know I think about myself and how much I’ve grown up as a person through this experience? 18:05 and… eve, you know, I wish I could just take it all away from Brian and have him be, you know. Quote unquote normal, you know? But we’ve learned a lot throughout this process about each other, like so much,. In the last like few weeks it’s just like really grown a lot and gotten to like a much deeper level in our relationship. Which has been really incredible, but just a really difficult way, to you know…
Brian: Not the choice way of going about it. (Laughter)
Brian I would say that too, I would say it, you know… that.. That the sober days I’ve had with you at this point, pretty fantastic.
[MUSIC OUT]
[PAUSE] NARRATION
You know what else is fantastic? Taking a little break…
[[[MIDROLL]]]
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And we’re back.
Remember when I said we wanted you to just have a happy ending for once? It would have gone here. When the episode came out last week – the one where we talked about Chelsea’s chronic singledom before Brian… Brian had over 10 days of sobriety, and he was going to come over to my house so we could catch up, and he could brag about that, and we could bring you the resolution we all wanted for these lovely people! But. NOPE.
He didn’t make it over. Instead, he texted me that something had come up. And I called him.
Nora: 2:19: What did you drink today? Brian: Oh, jesus Christ. Um. I drank a 750 of vodka.
Nora: JESUS! Do you enjoy it? Brian: No. Nora: It’s literally just to get drunk? Brian: No. No. It’s not just to get drunk. There’s like this… it’s to fulfill like a very specific chemical reaction in my brain. Nora: Yeah? What does it feel like? Brian: Well, God damn Nora. It doesn’t feel like anything it feels like trying to get back to normalcy. Nora: Do you feel normal right now?
Brian: No. That’s the horrible thing. It’s like. I want to feel normal AND my dog is curling up in my bed with me right now. She’s trying to feel normal… it makes me happy BUT…um… it does not feel normal. Because I know that what I want out of life is, I want to go over to Chelsea’s….and, she said no, and she’ s really in pain (yeah). If. I want to be with her so bad.
Nora: You don’t want this.
Brian: No! Of course not! I’ve never met Drunk Brian before. And it’s bedtime and the little kids want my attention and I’m trying to get reception in our house, which is basically a fortress protecting us FROM cell phone signals. And…I was just… so overwhelmingly sad. {{MUSIC}}
5:57 Nora: Brian, when did you start drinking? Because when Matthew met you you were like straight edge.
Brian: Yeah…my dad was an alcoholic. :50 He was…um…unpredictable. He, he sometimes came home at night. Sometimes not. He sometimes, you know, would like, go to Wisconsin and get fireworks and come home! And then not show up forever. I don’t know. He was unpredictable. It’s not…a good…radio story. He’s just a shitty person.
Nora: Do you remember the first time you drank? Brian: Yeah. It was because I was going out with a girl and…I wanted to impress her and… I was 25. And. Nora: What was the first thing you drank do you remember? Brian: It was a glass of white wine. It seemed cool. It seemed…sophisticated. But. It got…very, very complicated, very quickly after that. Nora: 3:00: was drinking a problem like right away? Was it like a switch was flipped and you were like… oh shit I like this a little too much? Brian: Yeah. YES. And Nora? If you want me to, I’m going to be completely open about drinking…so…I’ll answer any question you want about it. Because. Just because. I want to. But when I was…25, was when I first drank. Like… really heavily. And the first time I did…I hid it. In my room. And I was going to go to a bar and play a show with my band later that night. And for some reason I felt like, they couldn’t know that I was drinking. So I drank in my room alone. Like before we went to the show. Nora: You were already ashamed?
Brian: Oh, absolutely. I’m ashamed right now talking about it. And, there were many many nights after that where all I did was hide my drinking.
I heard you sigh just now. Nora: Yeah, it makes me sad. And I knew those facts about him, but they weren’t a part of the Brian I knew. The Brian I knew was the fantastic, thoughtful guy who was making my friend happier than I’d ever seen her. Who would throw my four-year-old into the sky with ease every time he saw him. The alcoholics I have in my life — among them my late father — they all got better. They’re all recovering. And I’ve always understood it to be… recovering… not recovered…that it’s a chronic issue, a constant source of self-work. It would be easier for all of us if Brian was just a big jerk. Then I could say say, UGH CHELSEA, DUMP HIM!!!! But he isn’t a jerk. You’ve heard him — he’s sensitive, and self-aware. I know that just a few miles from my house, Brian is home, fully aware of his fudge-up, and hating himself for it. I know that in front of me, my friend is hurt and feeling alone.He doesn’t want to hurt anyone. But, like, his behavior does hurt Chelsea. And the reaction to his behavior from other people hurts Chelsea. Because they see his drinking and his alcoholism as a character flaw. But they don’t know his actual character.
And that’s what makes it easy for us to judge people: just knowing a little bit about them. Enough to decide: you’re good, you’re bad. Brian’s a good dude who doesn’t always do good things. This is me and Chelsea at my house again, just the two of us (and a bunch of 10 year old girls hanging out in the basement).
Chelsea: I mean I think it’s hard because I hear a lot of people will say “I just don’t have time for that. I just wouldn’t have any patience for that.” That does seem to put the addiction into a category of it being irrational behavior on the addict’s part. Um… and..
Nora But, I mean– A rational.
Chelsea Yeah, arational, not irrational. Yeah. Because it is completely irrational. And I think that’s why people who don’t suffer from addiction get so frustrated, because we see… whether it’s an alcoholic in my case, or anyone with any sort of addiction– like, how do you get yourself all the way to the liquor store, and get the bottle and get home and still think it’s a good idea? But it’s just… it goes completely beyond reason. And it’s so frustrating to not be able to– as a extremely rational person, I would say–
Nora Oh, you’re very rational.
Chelsea To like, 6:36 rationalize this.
Nora To be like, “Just don’t. The key is that you just don’t drink.”
Chelsea Right, the key is–
Nora Like, if it were that easy then no one would have any problems with addiction…
Chelsea: Right, right.
Nora: …If the key was just “don’t do it.”
Chelsea: Right, like and it just seems like some sort of self control issue, but it really… seems to go beyond that in a way that I will just never be able to comprehend.
Nora what are– like, what are you going to do?
Chelsea: I think that’s like the million dollar question and that’s what makes the situation hard. Because there’s really just no right or wrong answer? Like people say “do whatever makes you feel good.” “do whatever, you know, follow whatever is going to make you feel good.” none of the decision’s I have are going to make me feel good. I just feel like I’m stuck i this “damned if you do damned if you don’t”.
Nora: what are your options right now?
Chelsea: I think… My options are to just keep going and not change anything? And just keep hoping every day that it happens, that it’s the last time. Or I… leave him and or something like (crying) something in between.
[MUSIC]
NARRATION
It’s always something in between. Our choices in life and love are never as clear as we need them to be, not when they’re in the moment.
Right now… Brian and Chelsea have broken up. Some of you are cheering. Some of you are booing. Some of you are the personification of an emoticon shrug guy. Or the emoji grimace smile. Which I believe was modeled after me.
Because this is such an impossible situation in so many ways. Because under all of this is just…pain. Chelsea is hurting. Brian is hurting. Everyone who loves them is hurting. Almost a week later… Brian is two days sober when I call him for a final update before we publish.
Brian: It’s very… confusing to be… in a situation where… she tells me that she loves me and she wants to be with me… and she… broke the pattern of how she was dating and that… when we started dating I did everything right… to make her feel cared for… and deserving of a relationship and… the one thing that I got wrong… was being an alcoholic but it wasn’t a conscious decision. And I’m trying everything I can to fix it. And… it’s kind of a lot to deal with both things at the same time. And… I want this thing to have a happy ending, too.
[THEME MUSIC] NARRATION
This has been Terrible, Thanks for Asking.
Brian, we love you. Chelsea, we love you.
Help finding resources & treatment: https://www.recovery.org https://americanaddictioncenters.org
Locate a meeting near you today: https://aa-meetings.com/locator/
This show was written, hosted and even RECORDED by me… Nora McInerny.
Hans Buetow is our Senior Producer, who apparently didn’t do anything this week.
Our interns are Jeyca Maldonado-Medina, Emily Allen, and Marcus Aarsvold.
HANNAH!!!
Special thanks this week to Molly Bloom, Marc Sanchez, Suzanne Pekow and Jeffrey Bissoy-Mattis.
Our theme song is by Geoffrey Lamar Wilson.
TTFA is a production of American Public Media… APM.
Call #1: 2:08: I don’t drink either, except when I do. It’s awful.
2:19: What did you drink today? Oh, jesus Christ. Um. I drank a 750 of vodka. JESUS! What kind of vodka do you drink? Titos. Do you enjoy it? No. It’s literally just to get drunk? No. No. It’s not just to get drunk. There’s like this, I don’t want to sound like I’m horribly specific, but, it’s to fulfill like a very specific chemical reaction in my brain. Yeah? What does it feel like? Well, God damn Nora. it feels like. It doesn’t feel like anything it feels like trying to get back to normalcy. Do you feel normal right now? No. That’s the horrible thing. It’s like. I want to feel normal AND my dog is curling up in my bed with me right now. She’s trying to feel normal and it makes me happy BUT…um. It does not feel normal. Because I know that what I want out of life is, I want to go over to Chelsea’s….and, she said no, and she’ s really in pain (yeah). If. I want to be with her so bad. You don’t want this. No! Of course not! 5:57 Brian, when did you start drinking? What do you mean? When did you start, because when Matthew met you you were like straight edge. Yeah…my dad was an alcoholic. 6:21: I wasn’t like, straight edge. But you didn’t drink. No. Um. I smoked. Cigarettes? Yeah. And I worked in like a comic book store. It was awesome. But. Well, why’d you start drinking? Do you remember the first time you drank? Yeah. It was because I was going out with a girl and…I wanted to impress her and I was 25. And. What was the first thing you drank do you remember? It was a glass of white wine. It seemed cool. It seemed…sophisticated. But. I don’t know. It got…very, very complicated, very quickly after that. Like how quickly. Well…How quickly? Hello?
CALL #2
Brian?
Hello. Hey.
0:25. I just want to say I need to go over to chelsea’s very soon. You can’t. Yeah I can. Did she say you could? Well, don’t go over to Chelsea’s. :50 Brian, why didn’t you drink til you were 25? Because I came out of an alcoholic family? What was your dad like? He was…um…unpredictable. He, he sometimes came home at night. Sometimes not. He sometimes, you know, would like, go to Wisconsin and get fireworks and come home! And then not show up forever. And. Sometimes he would just… I don’t know. He was unpredictable. It’s not…a good…radio story. He’s just a shitty person. I mean…he Awwww Ralphie! I wish that I could give him a hug right now. But you didn’t want to be like your dad. No of course not. And you were afriad if you drank youd end up like your dad. Yeah. Have you? Yeah. No. Not at all. I have spent hundreds of dollars in therapy to get through that situation.
3:00: was drinking a problem like right away? What do you mean? Like, you drank for the first time when you were 25. Was it like a switch was flipped? Yeah. YES. And Nora? If you want me to, I’m going to be completely open about drinking…so…I’ll answer any question you want about it. Because. Just because. I want to. But when I was…25, was when I first drank, really heavily. And the first time I did…I hid it. In my room. And I was going to go to a bar and play a show with my band later that night. And for some reason I felt like, they couldn’t know that I was drinking. So I drank in my room alone. Like before we went to the show. You were already ashamed? Oh, absolutely. And I’m ashamed right now talking about it. And, there were many many nights after that where all I did was hide my drinking. I heard you sigh just now. Yeah, it makes me sad. I, I’m…Nora, I’m also worried about CHelsea right now. Brian, we’re just worried bout you. No it’s not about me I can take care of myself. Well, dude, YOU CAN’T! Like, ALLOW ME TO DISAGREE! No, you can’t. You can’t. And you don’t need to. Because that’s why you have friends who love you, and we want to do better, we want to help however we can. Sigh. Thank you. (MUFFLED: THE FUCK!!!!)
Call #2 , very end: Brian, are you there? Brian? BRIAN?!
Call #3
Hello? Hello? Yeah. Okay.
Breathing.
0:58 we’re still going? We’re still going, dude. I wanted to ask you about your dad and that you didn’t drink. Hold on, I can barely hear you. What do you want to know?
I guess, I don’t know if you’re comfortable saying, but is this what ended your last marriage?
Hold on, I am having a very hard time hearing you…
1:58 I heard you sigh. That’s good! Um (silence). You want to know about your dad? No, but I want to know like this is what ended your first marriage? Yeah. Yeah yes and no. Yes. I mean. It’s a horrible question (laughing). I’m sorry! No, it’s like, you know…yes, if my if I was not an alcoholic and an addict my first marriage would not have ended BUT I think that there were also a lot of issues that we had that my addiction brought out that maybe it would have taken longer to find out. But…uncofrutnately my addiction just brought it out earlier. Is that fair to say? It’s fair. Noraaa! You’re the like the best worst person to talk to (NORA’S LOUD LAUGH). They both laugh. Stop sighing. If Matty is in the background that is the only thing that could make me happier. No he’s putting the kids to bed right now (NO!) he’s so good at it. I believe that. He used to put me to bed. We’d be in the van and we’d be like driving through Pennsylvania in the van and he’d be playing like My Bloddy Valentine and I’d be like Matt what are you listening to? My bloddy valentine! Well, okay, and then I’d just nod off, and he’d drive four more hours. He’s an…awesome dude. He is an awesome dude and you’re an awesome dude. Heavy sigh. Maybe, in my second life? I will be a woman. And I can be Matt’s partner. (laughter). But not yet. Well…brian. I’ve helped you, not at all. I didn’t call you so you could help me I called because I just don’t know what to do. It’s okay. 6:33: I’m going to call Chelsea. I wouldn’t, dude. Why not? I don’t know (I need her) I need to be with her, she’s a good person. She’s a good person but she can’t be with you if you’re THIS person. Okay, I understand. 7:38 Okay, so…um..what am I supposed to do right now? Sigh. Um, I don’t know, wake up tomorrow and not drink? Okay! That’s a good plan. I don’t know. I’ve never felt like THAt Brian. I feel like, I don’t know I don’t know. Because I don’t think that it’s like a rational thing, I don’t know. I guess, don’t drink is that good advice/ NOt REALLY! But you can’t go over there like this. And you can’t fix what you said to her while you’re like this. And you probably shouldn’t talk to her when you’re like this because you say things you’ll be horrified about tomorrow!!! Silence….call ends.