293. Ambition Monster

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Jennifer Romolini is a writer, podcaster, recovering workaholic and author of the new book Ambition Monster. She shares some of the tips she’s learned on how to find joy when you’re wired to be THE BEST.

You can read Jennifer’s substack here.

About It's Going to Be OK

If you have anxiety, depression or any sense of the world around you, you know that not *everything* is going to be okay. In fact, many things aren’t okay and never will be!

But instead of falling into the pit of despair, we’re bringing you a little OK for your day. Every weekday, we’ll bring you one okay thing to help you start, end or endure your day with the opposite of a doom scroll.

Find Nora’s weekly newsletter here! Also, check out Nora on YouTube.

Share your OK thing at 502-388-6529‬ or by emailing a note or voice memo to [email protected]. Start your message with “I’m (name) and it’s going to be okay.”

“It’s Going To Be OK” is brought to you by The Hartford. The Hartford is a leading insurance provider that connects people and technology for better employee benefits.  Learn more at www.thehartford.com/benefits.

The IGTBO team is Nora McInerny, Claire McInerny, Marcel Malekebu, Amanda Romani and Grace Barry.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.


Jennifer: I’m Jennifer Romolini. It’s going to be okay. I’m a writer, podcast host, and formerly a person who held a lot of fancy high pressure dream jobs. I’m also a workaholic, or at least I was. I’ve spent the past five years changing my relationship with work and the last two writing a book called Ambition Monster, which is out now.

So first things first. How do you know if you’re a workaholic? Well, you can start by taking something called the Work Addiction Risk Test, which is one of the few tools available to help mental health workers identify workaholism in their patients. The work addiction risk test is often referred to by its acronym WART, which somehow seems perfect, or at least perfectly gross.

The WART test was invented by psychotherapist Brian E. Robinson in 1999, and it looks at problematic work tendencies, including compulsive behaviors, impaired communication, an inability to delegate, and low levels of self esteem. To take the WART test, to take the WART test, you read 25 statements and rate each on a scale from 1 to 4, ranging from 1, never true, to 4, always true.

Here’s a sampling of those statements. Statement 1, I prefer to do most things myself rather than ask for help. Statement 2, I overcommit myself by accepting more work than I can finish. Statement three, I feel guilty when I am not working on something. Statement four, it is hard for me to relax when I am not working.

Statement five, I get upset with myself for making even the smallest mistake. And this one, oof, the killer. Statement six, I put more thought, time, and energy into my work than I do into my relationships. When I first took this test at the height of my career in 2018, I got a 96 out of 100. A near perfect score.

When I first took this test, I was near perfect at working and not much else. The thing about workaholism is it can feel like a fake problem, or at least not as serious as it can actually be. That’s because when we think about life annihilating addiction, most of us imagine a problematic relationship with drugs and or alcohol, maybe gambling, food, or even getting it on.

But actually, since at least the 1990s, more and more research shows that many of us become chronically addicted to work, engaging with our careers in ways that devastate both our physical and our mental health. Like many addictions, workaholism is cumulative. Over time, we can actually become dependent on the drug like euphoria that comes from accomplishment.

The positive, secure, confidence boosting feelings. Confidence boosting feelings, often absent in the rest of our lives, that come from a pat on the head. that come from a pat on the back from a boss or a good performance review. Understanding and identifying workaholism in the United States is complicated by the fact that our country’s unifying ethos, late stage capitalism, teaches us to calculate our worth based on our productivity. To conflate happiness with success. Our capitalist conditioning begins nearly as soon as we are sentient. And certainly by the time we reach school age, most Americans have learned that a sure way to be liked and even loved is to achieve. You know, hustle harder. Add to that the virtues of a Protestant work ethic that have been pushed on Americans for centuries, and it often feels like i f you’re not giving work everything you’ve got, even if you know the physical, emotional, and social toll it takes, you’re a loser, or at least that’s the way it felt for me, for literal decades.

But here’s the good news. You can wake yourself up from this workaholic trance. You don’t have to keep working like this. You don’t need to keep feeling like if you make one false move, everything you’ve worked so hard for, everything you’ve worked so hard for will just poof go away. You can stop feeling like your value is tied up in what and how much you do.

The first step out of workaholism is to stop caring about how things look to the outside world and to start valuing how they feel to you. Don’t take a job because it looks good. Stop saying yes when you actually mean no. Don’t over promise because you’re looking for a gold star. And don’t over deliver for one either.

Get comfortable with your own company so you don’t need work to distract you from your feelings. Start validating yourself so you don’t need it so much from the outside world. And stop, the best you can, tying your self worth to your career success. Here’s another thing you can do starting today.

Practice setting boundaries. Create a fulfilling life outside of work. Find a hobby you actually love. Invest in your relationships with friends. Move your body in whatever way feels good. Plan events and trips to look forward to that have nothing to do with work. In small and big ways, prioritize yourself.

We need to work for survival. But working all the time is no way to live. Invest in your life resume with as much, if not more, passion than you do your career. Remember, no one lies on their deathbed and regrets not working more. At the end of it all, our most rewarding job is to enjoy ourselves and to live.

Jennifer Romolini is a writer, podcaster, recovering workaholic and author of the new book Ambition Monster. She shares some of the tips she’s learned on how to find joy when you’re wired to be THE BEST.

You can read Jennifer’s substack here.

About It's Going to Be OK

If you have anxiety, depression or any sense of the world around you, you know that not *everything* is going to be okay. In fact, many things aren’t okay and never will be!

But instead of falling into the pit of despair, we’re bringing you a little OK for your day. Every weekday, we’ll bring you one okay thing to help you start, end or endure your day with the opposite of a doom scroll.

Find Nora’s weekly newsletter here! Also, check out Nora on YouTube.

Share your OK thing at 502-388-6529‬ or by emailing a note or voice memo to [email protected]. Start your message with “I’m (name) and it’s going to be okay.”

“It’s Going To Be OK” is brought to you by The Hartford. The Hartford is a leading insurance provider that connects people and technology for better employee benefits.  Learn more at www.thehartford.com/benefits.

The IGTBO team is Nora McInerny, Claire McInerny, Marcel Malekebu, Amanda Romani and Grace Barry.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.


Jennifer: I’m Jennifer Romolini. It’s going to be okay. I’m a writer, podcast host, and formerly a person who held a lot of fancy high pressure dream jobs. I’m also a workaholic, or at least I was. I’ve spent the past five years changing my relationship with work and the last two writing a book called Ambition Monster, which is out now.

So first things first. How do you know if you’re a workaholic? Well, you can start by taking something called the Work Addiction Risk Test, which is one of the few tools available to help mental health workers identify workaholism in their patients. The work addiction risk test is often referred to by its acronym WART, which somehow seems perfect, or at least perfectly gross.

The WART test was invented by psychotherapist Brian E. Robinson in 1999, and it looks at problematic work tendencies, including compulsive behaviors, impaired communication, an inability to delegate, and low levels of self esteem. To take the WART test, to take the WART test, you read 25 statements and rate each on a scale from 1 to 4, ranging from 1, never true, to 4, always true.

Here’s a sampling of those statements. Statement 1, I prefer to do most things myself rather than ask for help. Statement 2, I overcommit myself by accepting more work than I can finish. Statement three, I feel guilty when I am not working on something. Statement four, it is hard for me to relax when I am not working.

Statement five, I get upset with myself for making even the smallest mistake. And this one, oof, the killer. Statement six, I put more thought, time, and energy into my work than I do into my relationships. When I first took this test at the height of my career in 2018, I got a 96 out of 100. A near perfect score.

When I first took this test, I was near perfect at working and not much else. The thing about workaholism is it can feel like a fake problem, or at least not as serious as it can actually be. That’s because when we think about life annihilating addiction, most of us imagine a problematic relationship with drugs and or alcohol, maybe gambling, food, or even getting it on.

But actually, since at least the 1990s, more and more research shows that many of us become chronically addicted to work, engaging with our careers in ways that devastate both our physical and our mental health. Like many addictions, workaholism is cumulative. Over time, we can actually become dependent on the drug like euphoria that comes from accomplishment.

The positive, secure, confidence boosting feelings. Confidence boosting feelings, often absent in the rest of our lives, that come from a pat on the head. that come from a pat on the back from a boss or a good performance review. Understanding and identifying workaholism in the United States is complicated by the fact that our country’s unifying ethos, late stage capitalism, teaches us to calculate our worth based on our productivity. To conflate happiness with success. Our capitalist conditioning begins nearly as soon as we are sentient. And certainly by the time we reach school age, most Americans have learned that a sure way to be liked and even loved is to achieve. You know, hustle harder. Add to that the virtues of a Protestant work ethic that have been pushed on Americans for centuries, and it often feels like i f you’re not giving work everything you’ve got, even if you know the physical, emotional, and social toll it takes, you’re a loser, or at least that’s the way it felt for me, for literal decades.

But here’s the good news. You can wake yourself up from this workaholic trance. You don’t have to keep working like this. You don’t need to keep feeling like if you make one false move, everything you’ve worked so hard for, everything you’ve worked so hard for will just poof go away. You can stop feeling like your value is tied up in what and how much you do.

The first step out of workaholism is to stop caring about how things look to the outside world and to start valuing how they feel to you. Don’t take a job because it looks good. Stop saying yes when you actually mean no. Don’t over promise because you’re looking for a gold star. And don’t over deliver for one either.

Get comfortable with your own company so you don’t need work to distract you from your feelings. Start validating yourself so you don’t need it so much from the outside world. And stop, the best you can, tying your self worth to your career success. Here’s another thing you can do starting today.

Practice setting boundaries. Create a fulfilling life outside of work. Find a hobby you actually love. Invest in your relationships with friends. Move your body in whatever way feels good. Plan events and trips to look forward to that have nothing to do with work. In small and big ways, prioritize yourself.

We need to work for survival. But working all the time is no way to live. Invest in your life resume with as much, if not more, passion than you do your career. Remember, no one lies on their deathbed and regrets not working more. At the end of it all, our most rewarding job is to enjoy ourselves and to live.

About Our Guest

Jennifer Romolini

View Jennifer Romolini's Profile

Our Sponsor

The Hartford is a leading insurance provider that’s connecting people and technology for better employee benefits.
Learn more at www.thehartford.com/benefits.

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