283. The Power of Screaming

In 2015, Jayson Greene’s toddler daughter was killed in a freak accident. In this excerpt from his episode of Terrible, Thanks For Asking episode, Jayson shares the story of how he accepted anger as part of his grief process. 

You can hear an April 2024 update with Jayson on the Terrible, Thanks for Asking Patreon or Apple Plus. Jayson’s original episode, It Just Happens, can be heard here. 

Jayson’s memoir is called Once More We Saw Stars.

Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.

I’m Nora McInerny, and it’s going to be okay.

A few years ago, I spoke with Jayson Greene on Terrible, Thanks For Asking about surviving the death of his daughter, Greta. 

It’s one of those things that will never be okay. It’s one of those things that, as Jayson put it, just happens. Sometimes, the very worst thing imaginable – something so wildly unlikely you actually would never imagine it – happens. And you’re left to just…live your life.

And part of that life, and that grief…is just not palatable to the world. Grief can be ugly. And angry. And that’s an essential part of it. Getting it out of your system.

The first time Jayson discovers the power of screaming, it was at a grief retreat. The kind of thing he wouldn’t normally attend. The kind of thing that requires group activities…a personal hell for anyone who is not much of a joiner. But the kind of thing you turn to anyway, because you also weren’t ever planning to be THIS person.

Jayson: [00:59:06] And then… the last– one of the last activities we did that weekend was David Kessler… had asked us to write letters to our our dead person to use a phrase that you use that I really like. We had to write a letter to our dead person and everyone had a letter. And I was looking around everyone’s holding this letter and that’s powerful by itself. Just looking around and seeing everyone holding this letter to their dead beloved I mean they’re strangers but that’s such an intimate thing. And… he asked who wanted to read theirs aloud. And Stacey kind of nudged me cause she she sensed like Yeah I kind of needed some I needed something– I need some recognition I needed something and I raised my hand. Even though I was like “What the fuck am I doing as?” my hand went out so much. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks Stacey. Yeah. Well it kind of rebounded back on her in the best possible way… because I read this letter about Gretta and how I– and David said you sound angry. And I said “Oh my God I’m so angry and angry all the time I feel sick with it I feel like I’ve contracted this horrible disease. I just I hate anger. I’ve… always been so uncomfortable with anger you know it’s the worst.” I had this whole like outpouring and he’s like “All right come on up. You Stacey come on up to the front room cause we’re gonna demonstrate to people… how anger can be liberating.” I look at Stacey and she’s looking at me like… I’m gonna murder you. Like you know I’m going to be widow now too because I’m not going– you know I can’t believe you’ve got me into this. And they drag us up to the front of the room and we have to sit down and pound pillows and scream… in front of everyone… at this room. And you know… I’m like holding the pillow I feel like the kindergartner who has been brought up for the– you know the show and tell her something. Who wouldn’t want to sit back down and he’s like No no come on come on. And so then he to demonstrate he– he throws the pillow down on the floor. This is David Kessler in front of everybody and he slams his fist into it. HE SCREAMS “It just isn’t fair.” He’s like “Do it like that.” Stacy and I are sitting down and we’re frozen. And he says to me like “what makes you angry?” And I said something… I said that “I hate happy families.” Which was the first time I admitted that sentiment out loud. I had felt that I’d never vocalized it because it felt so ugly to me. That was my new self meeting my old self and sort of hating what it saw… right and didn’t want to accept that I had this rage in me. And he said “Well you got to scream that!” I was like “oh God.” And so then he count to three in the group dynamics work the way they work for reasons I find myself screaming “I hate happy families.” I was pounding the pillow. And it was so visceral. And and it was something in me that I’d been holding on to that I hadn’t even acknowledged was released. And so I think that moment was the first moment I realized… oh wow this is a powerful tool. And so that was the first time that I… Felt the power of what’s screaming could do. [01:01:58]

Jayson: [01:09:45] I’d had this belief that anger was bad. Anger was dangerous it was destructive.

It’s one thing to scream in a safe place. In a fancy retreat center or a grief group where someone is holding space for you to lose your everloving shit. But we don’t get to STAY in those spaces. You have to go back out into the big, wide world. A world that is totally oblivious to your pain. And you have to go do normal people stuff. And Jayson does that. He goes to work. He goes to the grocery store. He goes to Yoga. And sometimes, he just fucking SCREAMS. 

Jayson: [00:51:35] There was no decision making. When you have to vomit whether or not you have chosen your venue you just gotta find a spot to go do it. And I was in the middle of downtown Manhattan… on one of those weird little streets that like curves around like it… leaves Broadway and comes back to Broadway and it’s like… three houses three you know whatever storefronts it’s such a weird area down there and I looked up front up front of me… and there’s one person riding in the corner. I look behind me there was nobody and I just screamed. Screamed. So loudly. And it felt glorious. It was like the best feeling I’ve ever had. And I looked around and it seemed like no one had caught me and that also felt so weirdly powerful… to me. I had done this thing… you know I had… I’d become extremely visible… in my pain. I allowed it to escape I had sort of said to you know… I’m fucking dying here. I feel like I’m dying. And not only did I get to vent that feeling out of my body… I didn’t have to deal with anyone’s scrutiny afterward. No one had to come up to me– I never had to– I didn’t have to reassure anyone that I was fine. Because I was not. And then I became addicted to that. It was an incredible feeling. 

Dr. Edith Eger once told us that what comes out of you doesn’t make you sick, what stays inside of you does. So let it out. Go scream in an alleyway. Scream into a pillow. Scream in your car – but not at anyone – road rage is not cool. Let it out – whatever it is – get it out of your body. Let yourself feel the power of screaming today.

You can hear our full conversation with Jayson over on Terrible, Thanks for Asking. He’s also a guest on Terrible Reading Club where he’s sharing his favorite books about grief. Both are linked in the show notes, along with Jayson’s memoir, once more we saw stars.

I’m Nora Mcinerny, and this is it’s going to be okay, a podcast from feelings & co. This episode was produced by Megan Palmer. Our theme music is by secret audio.